Episodes

Dan Martell 2

Dan Martell 2

Dan is an investor. a serial entrepreneur, and the founder of Clarity.fm, a startup that allows you to connect with experts so that you can make faster and better decisions to grow your business. Dan is an expert on product growth hacking.

In this episode, award-winning entrepreneur Dan Martell and I jump into building two-sided marketplaces, setting your business up to get acquired, and more.

TOPIC DAN COVERS

  • Building two startups at the same time: one for supply (experts) and one for demand (entrepreneurs seeking advice)
  • Ensuring a consistent and high-quality supply of experts
  • Matching the right expert with the right entrepreneur based on their specific needs
  • Managing and moderating the interactions between experts and entrepreneurs to ensure a positive and productive experience for both parties
  • Building trust and credibility in the marketplace for both experts and entrepreneurs to encourage participation and engagement
  • Building a marketplace is like having twins, it’s like two babies at the same time and you’ve got to kind of nurture them forward
  • Clarity got to people on a phone call, it sounds simple but it’s tough
  • It’s important to understand the right people to provide the advice (supply side) and what’s the core customer
  • What’s the value proposition to a person’s willingness to invest in that call (demand side)
  • Figure out who your demand is and figure out how to get in front of them
  • And a whole lot more

LINKS & RESOURCES

WATCH THE INTERVIEW

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READ THE TRANSCRIPTION

Bronson: Welcome to another episode of Growth Hacker TV. I’m Bronson Taylor and today I have Dan Martel with us again. Dan, thanks for coming back on the show.

Dan: Bronson Absolutely. My pleasure, man. Thank you so much for having me back.

Bronson: One thing we can always count on is your energy. I love it.

Dan: It’s a given man. I just I just love to, you know, to make sure that people know I’m alive and awake, that they do.

Bronson: Well, let me tell people a little bit about you. You’re a long time friend of the show. More importantly, you’re a serial entrepreneur with multiple exits. That is rarefied air, which means we should be learning from you. And you’re an all around smart dude, nice dude, and we’re just excited to have you back on the show. In fact, your last episode when you came on is one of the most watched episodes on Growth Hacker TV, which is saying something because now we have over 170 episodes and Dan Martell is right there at the top. So thanks again, man.

Dan: Let’s that’s the bar, man. Let’s bring it to the next level.

Bronson: Let’s do it. You knew? I think we will. I mean, last time we chatted, we had some good stuff. I recommend people going to watch that one again today. It’s I think it’s going to be even better. I mean, the stuff we’re going to talk about is so important to every entrepreneur. So let’s just jump right in. No more preamble. All right. So you’ve spent the last few years building clarity, Dot FM. It really took off after building it. You sold it recently and now you’re kind of on to your next thing. And so let’s start though, with the building of clarity. FM Real quick, one sentence. What is clarity?

Dan: Clarity is a marketplace for entrepreneurs to get advice from their entrepreneurs to get unstuck.

Bronson: I love it. I’ve been on both sides of the clarity equation. I’ve had people call me to help get unstuck, and I’ve called them to get unstuck. So I’m a user on both sides of that marketplace, and it works as advertised. You know, it’s simple, it’s efficient, it’s cost effective, and you get to get some of the brainpower of great people. Clarity was the marketplace right? There are notoriously difficult because you’re essentially building two startups at the same time. One for supply, one for demand. What are some of the difficulties that come along with the marketplace?

Dan: Yeah, I mean, marketplace is like having twins, right? It’s like two babies at the exact same time and you’ve got to kind of nurture them forward. The challenges are, you know, like any building, any startup. But it’s for me, it’s it’s understanding the marketplace dynamics, right? So, you know, we made every mistake possible, just so you know, you said, yeah, clarity took off. It did. But it was after nine months of of some really in hindsight, stupid decisions. I mean, we didn’t even have search on the marketplace for the first six months. In the early days, we let anybody sign up for clarity and be an expert, which I would not advise anybody to do, that you needed to build quality control into your supply side. So yeah, we made every mistake, but we were just quick to learn and interact. And what I’ve learned about building a marketplace is it’s like an organism, right? It’s it’s every. You can’t tell two people how they’re going to behave. You can just create the features and game mechanics to incentivize them to do the right behavior. So, for example, clarity, getting to people on a phone call. At the same time, it sounds simple. It’s ridiculously tough. I mean, if you’ve ever tried to just schedule a friend for a phone call, we had to do that at scale, thousands of calls a day. It was really, you know, understanding the right people to provide the advice, the supply side, and then understanding what’s the core customer, what’s the value proposition to a person’s willing to invest in that call? And, you know, I’ll just give some examples on the demand side. We realized for clarity anyways, it was anybody who’s ever paid to go to an event because that is the that’s the filter of saying, I understand the value of being around people. I understand the value of information to grow my business and I’ve invested in that myself. And clearly it was all of a sudden an opportunity for you to talk with those speakers on stage without having to wait for the event, without the huge financial investment of travel and accommodations and then not risking the chance. You may not even talk to that expert. So I think when people think about building a marketplace, they need to zero in exactly on who their core customer is on the demand side because that will inform the product, ill informed the supply side and inform all strategy and strategic decisions in your startup. So now I would say, number one, figure out who your demand is and and figure out how to get in front of them.

Bronson: Yeah. See, I love that because I think with a marketplace it can serve so many people that sometimes you might want to skip over the let’s define the customer point because I think it’s a marketplace. I mean, anybody technically could get value from it because it’s a marketplace. There’s so many things on it.

Dan: I mean, especially like clarity was a phone marketplace. So we had people going, Oh, you should have doctors on there, psychiatrist, I mean, you name it, parents parenting advice. And I’m like, Wow, you’re right, the platform can support all that. But we needed to focus exclusively on a core customer. And we chose initially tech entrepreneurs and marketing as a category, and then we expanded it from there. So that’s another probably the second biggest piece of advice is focus on a category or a specific offering and really dial that in and then then use the bowling pin strategy to go to the second and third logical market and then eventually blow it out to now we have 5000 categories. In early days we had one, then three than five.

Bronson: Never heard that. The bowling pin strategy. I want to use that again and I’m going to rip that one off, take it or leave it. So what’s more important? Supply or demand? I’ve heard both from people that built marketplaces. What do you think?

Dan: You know is the web? There’s two types of marketplaces. There is one. And some people argue the second is not a true marketplace. There’s one where the there’s not at the price for the supply. So that would be an example like Uber, maybe Postmates, you know, exact back in the day, there’s been a lot of other marketplaces where essentially they don’t own the staff, but they still connect people together. TaskRabbit. To a certain degree, they have a fixed price type of initiatives, whereas you have open marketplaces. You know, even fiber, I would say, is that kind of marketplaces are $5 a task. And then you have other things like Upwork, Clarity, Airbnb, where the supply side sets are price. So where the supply side sets are price, it’s demand. Where you set the price, it’s supply. And just because the dynamics are different and what you’re trying to accomplish, if you’re going to a market and saying, look, if you want to hire somebody to clean your house and it’s, you know, $20 a visit, we have the best people and they’ll be there on time. You’re setting the expectations. You’re owning that relationship and the brand that goes with it. So you really need to dial in the experience for the user. Whereas if you are, you know, representing kind of an offering like Upwork or Clarity, you do want to own the quality of the supply. But the true challenge to validate or to to figure out early is demand because that that is going to be the hardest thing to get, you know, one of the supply. So we’re building clarity. I we grew to over 50,000 experts in 16 months. It was easy once we figured out where to find them. We can talk about that story because we were saying, do you want to make more money? Like who says no?

Bronson: That exactly.

Dan: Like when it’s like, yes, customers want more money. So we just had to figure out the right people. They’re willing to pay for that investment.

Bronson: Yeah, see, I love that answer. I never thought about that. That the more you own the experience, the more it’s on you to vet the supply side to make it a great experience. The more you’re not vetting them, the more you’re not owning it, the more you’re going to have to focus on demand because that’s where the value is. I never thought about it, but intuitively it makes so much sense. All right. So let’s get into it. How did you get 50,000 experts? What was that like?

Dan: Yeah, well, so, I mean, I teach a process called growth engines and it’s all about the demand marketing, sales conversion and then customer success. And that that that engine is whenever I work with an entrepreneur or I’ve built a company myself, it’s always trying to figure out how do you make that flywheel turn? And the key especially because, you know, we figured out the demand side we needed to get the supply side ramped up. Was asking yourself, where where do people and I’ll ask you the question. So you kind of answers, where do people that, you know, have authority, you know, the topic where it is, what works, that you would assume that you would go sourced from to find those people and question to you and your audience.

Bronson: Yeah, I mean, I would guess.

Dan: Those networks that you would think of.

Bronson: I would guess Cora, I would guess go to find people that have their own blogs, things like that. LinkedIn, LinkedIn.

Dan: Blogs, LinkedIn, etc.. And here’s the challenge with those and we tried all of them was that they’re very good at not giving us any information, actually reach out to those people. LinkedIn is notorious. You want to try to scrape LinkedIn? Good luck. That’s their core business. They’ve figured out how to lock that down better than anybody else. Yeah, horror was a little easier identified people, but there was no information that we could use to reach out to them. And really, again, my my growth engine process is about just testing and iterating and iterating. And eventually we found a channel. And when I tell it to you guys, it’ll be very obvious. And we scaled it from there and it was SlideShare because we could search any topic. So when people posted a question on clarity, we could search the topic for the top slides. We knew that they were an expert because those slides got views. Then on the last slide of every email.

Bronson: Contact was a beautiful in Manila.

Dan: I know, right? You hear. And you’re like, of course. But that’s all about, you know, what I call open other people’s networks. How can you leverage for distribution, especially if you’re trying to scale every start up from Instagram to Dropbox to you name it, leverage, uber, uber use of that. So you may not know this, but Travis Kalanick, the founder and CEO is an investor in my previous company flow down was is one of. My mentors and early days, I watched how he leverage event organizers in every city that they deployed you to give them the ride credits. Again, that was in other people’s networks. They leverage that to scale. We use SlideShare manually at first, and this is one of my beliefs in building product. You manually do it to learn it, to see if it works, and then you productize it or operationalize it if it works and then you scale. And that’s what we did. We built a we built a tool called Bonjour that automated this whole process.

Bronson: I like that. Bonjour. A way to say hello to people.

Dan: It’s a module, right? Hello? Good money.

Bronson: Exactly. So I’m interested in this because on clarity, you put up a Q&A style, kind of core, you know, feature I interacted with and I answer some questions and I actually got calls, I think, because I did answers on there, and then they would get promoted in different ways. Was that a good driver of traffic for you guys? Was that a win?

Dan: It was our it was our third. It was in the top three. It was right behind experts widgets. So we incentivize our experts to put their widgets on their different blogs. That was obviously qualified traffic if it was on their, you know, Twitter profile or whatever. But, you know, we had a core metric inside of clarity called it’s expert driven sign up our core. We tried to do paid acquisition that didn’t work because of the the margins that we were taking didn’t support a paid acquisition strategy. So we knew that would have to be some some aspect of SEO or inbound or word of mouth. So we just optimized the crap out of EDC expert driven sales. So we asked ourselves what are ways we can get our experts to produce content or promote themselves to get new demand? And if they came in through your blog widget, we knew that we own them as a customer and that we could help sell or promote other experts that would round out. That advice came in for SEO advice. Well, maybe you needed advice on business development. So there’s like logical categories and yeah, information that we could, we could promote if they came in and did a call. And the Q&A Clarity Answers was really just that it was SEO and also solving the problem for demand side, which is I don’t know who I should reach out to. Sure, I could search. But the challenge with search is when you have and this is a problem with a marketplace where you have unlimited supply or you don’t set the price is I don’t know if this guy is worth that price and this guy looks good, but he’s a different price and it’s analysis paralysis. So what we allowed new members to do is just publish a question, have a bunch of experts answer it, and then they could see which one they thought resonated the best. And then they would click through and call them. So experts loved it because they got more calls. New members or new customers loved it because they got to filter easier. And then we loved it because it would create Killer SEO. I mean, Q&A is the ultimate SEO content and and we just felt like we had a different twist. Have to do calls have to you know, I mean, it’s a it’s not just anybody that can answer questions on clarity answers.

Bronson: Yeah, absolutely. And so that was two and three, the widget from the experts and the Q&A, the clarity answers. What was number one?

Dan: We did it. We have a blog blog at clarity about it. And it was again using the experts contributed content to build up you know. Play with where we built the budget, turn 50,000 units a month in the first two years and it was our primary driver of traffic clarity with the widgets and kind of having our experts link up their profiles that it was the clarity answer that audio and then it was the blog which again was a form of SEO. Sure, but it was contributed by all the experts.

Bronson: Yeah. And so you recently, somewhat recently exited Clarity FM you sold it to Startup SKO. Did they seek you out or did you seek them out? Because I’ve heard people say, you know, it’s actually. Yeah, go ahead.

Dan: Companies are bought.

Bronson: Exactly. Exactly.

Dan: I mean. Yeah, well, yeah. And I’ve you know, I’ve been fortunate enough to have gone through the process three times now. Clarity was the third, and it probably helped 50 plus other entrepreneurs, either through investments I’ve done or just clarity calls to walk them through that process. Startups was an interesting one because we were in process and we had talked to companies, you know, they always make us sign an NDA, but you can imagine some of the companies that we are a logical fit for sure. I may have mentioned one already on this interview, but we were talking about those kind of companies, some in New York that are that are large what’s called an expert network. And we’re probably pretty far down the process. And all of a sudden. And will the founder of startups go calls me just to catch up just to talk and I you know, we’ve known each other for a while and he’s like, what’s new? And I was like, Well, you know, keep it between us, but we’re actually in process. And he started thinking, he’s like, Really? It’s he was calling me for advice on how to build a Q&A product. Right, for their community. And because we had built clarity answers. Mm hmm. And I was like, well, obviously we have a capability. And he just said briefly that would you even entertain the, you know, as being an option? I said, well, you’re going to have to, you know, make a decision quickly because we’re in process. But totally. I mean, well, he’s one of the best entrepreneurs out there. And what he’s created so far with startups, that is incredible. I mean, prior to acquiring clarity, he bought three other companies, launch Rocket, etc., just by virtue of which a lot of people. But he actually brought that back to life. That 110 staff was an incredible entrepreneur, and this is what got me over. And if you ever hear these words from a potential acquirer, you can just, you know, thank them for it. But he said, you know, I don’t expect you to stay more than a day.

Bronson: So, no, no vesting.

Dan: I look well done, sir. Well done. Yeah, actually, I mean, the cool thing about building a marketplace is it’s a flywheel. I mean, it continues to grow 10% every month. It’s just it’s the way the marketplace works. And we had a great team that went over. But, you know, he just said, look, stay on as a strategic advisor for 12 months so that I, I feel like I had some coverage and I can always call you, which he could anyway. You know, I’m sure I cared more about making sure that the community found the right fit because the, you know, half of the other opportunities we were looking at, they were going to essentially shut the core product down and integrate the technology into their system, which I wasn’t too keen on. Obviously, I got to entertain that option as a as a venture backed company. That’s kind of our responsibility as an entrepreneur. But that one was the best of all worlds because, you know, it’s not a great home. It continues to grow. It continues to be available. I keep using it. I mean, I’ve got over 1300 clarity call. Wow. And, and, and because of their vision for their product roadmap, they just integrated all clarity answers into their other properties. And clear to you will be the call connectivity portion of advice on the back of the other SaaS product, which was actually a vision we had. They were going to execute internally. So it’s awesome. Now for your audience, they’re probably worried about like, how do I make the bad decision? What are the things I should negotiate? Number one, you should make sure you understand where you’re going and you want to talk to people that have either been acquired by that company or try to spend as much time as you can prior to actually signing off on the deal so that you for their culture because trust me, the previous exit slow down to demand fourth was not a positive experience for me. I lasted two months and I had a one year earnout, so I didn’t have to stay that much longer. I just couldn’t do it. Plus, I came out with the idea for clarity about much of an entrepreneur not to follow my ideas. But yeah, I mean, exiting is always a challenge because you’re torn between wanting to continue to grow. But if you have investors, you have a you have a financial responsibility to them and to your team to get the best outcome and as fast as you can. Right. It’s not cool to spend 20 years building a company greed.

Bronson: Is it hard to let go? Even though they’re keeping the core product together, they’re letting people continue to use it. It’s it’s still hard to be like, okay, I’m now an advisor and after that, I’m nothing, even though it was my baby, you know?

Dan: Yeah, I’ll say when I sold my first company here, that was probably the one that hit me the most. I spent four years building this company as a consulting company with some technology we had built. And you know, I remember I still remember that morning I woke up and realized that nobody cared if I got out of bed. And it sounds crazy, but when you work 100 hours a week for four years and we grew to 30 employees, you know, millions of revenues, it was it was it was my identity. It was who I am. And all of a sudden, I realized I didn’t have that. Now, yeah, I had money in the bank, but it was like I actually got into a mini depression. Like, you know, you know, I didn’t even know it at the time. I was just like, what was going on? Because like, I’d get these anxiety attacks and I went and ended up talking to a guy friend of mine and he’s like, Yeah, man, you’re having anxiety what he called postpartum. Like, essentially, you know, the loss of a child or something, not to that degree. You know, obviously, I’m sure I wouldn’t put it in that same light, but it was putting your soul and your identity into something and then having that gone. So what did I do differently? With Low Down? I made sure that I never catch my self-worth to my business. And I probably the best advice that I give entrepreneurs all the time is who you are and the success of your business are two separate things. Do not intertwine them. And you know, that was kind of what helped me, I guess, with clarity as well. Just realize, like even from the beginning when I built this, like I don’t own it. And clarity was even more that because it was a community, it was a marketplace. Like, if all my experts decided that I don’t like clarity anymore, then I didn’t have a product, which is a really scary thing, but also a very honest and focusing kind of commitment. So that was a lot easier for Eric with the work flow. Time was a lot, lot easier and that clarity is probably easier also because I understood better how to choose the right person to kind of support it and move it along further.

Bronson: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense now. Like you said, being a serial entrepreneur, you are you couldn’t even wait, you know, the extra ten months to get turned out. So I know, you know, you sell clarity. You’re on to the next one as as Jay-Z would say. So I do an excellent. So what is the next one for you? And this is actually, I think, pretty exciting.

Dan: Yeah. Well, I will say this. I told my wife, you know, when I started Clarity, my wife was pregnant and then we had another my second boy 11 months apart. So like I built a backpack company. She built her company pretty crazy. Well, we had two kids and we moved and we we had the opportunity to build our dream and just kind of cool. It should do that because I remember talking to a friend. She said, You realize that three things all stressed you the crap out our changing location moving and new job so we started new companies and having a kid in your family, you know, birth of a child. Yeah. And we had that at times, too. So I, I told her after that experience I wouldn’t do anything for a year. I lasted six months and I really tried. I went to San Diego, we rented a house on the beach. It was awesome. But, you know, I just kept getting inspired by people out there really contributing, giving back to the world, you know, like you’re doing with the podcast. And I had all these friends and I never did that. I did it for my companies. I had a blog for my company, you know, I did social media and marketing and stuff, but I just decided one day to shoot videos for my kids. Honestly, initially it was if something happened to me in three or four years and I didn’t document some of these, those 1300 clarity calls, where would they learn about my values and my beliefs and my approach to building business? My kids will be entrepreneurs. It’s just this kind of how I see it. And I started with the YouTube channel, and then four months after that I realized that I wanted to serve even more. And I launched an online program called I Need to Exit, which was everything I’ve ever learned about starting a company, scaling it and eventually exiting it. I launched that just in my small email list that did incredibly well, which then parlayed into a live event I did in San Francisco last November, which I put that live event up there with, like meeting my wife, the birth of my kids and that live. And that might sound crazy because I’ve been fortunate as a pretty cool, you know, experiences in my life, like selling companies. But there was something that happened in that room with those entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs from around the world that came to that. And just my ability to connect with them and to give them 110% and to share openly and and just really care on a level that doesn’t happen on video, on YouTube, on social media. So I decided to do that at the biggest level. So pretty much starting January 1st, I went all in. That was just kind of an experiment last year, and now we’re relaunching the program with a bunch of great partners. And I just want to I just want to serve as many people as I can. So the goal is a million people in the next ten years, one on one and in person, like through my videos. Through, through the lot of that through the course.

Bronson: Yeah. And you know, the great thing about learning idea to exit from someone like you is you can do a search for those topics. You can go to Udemy, but who’s the educator, right? Is it someone who really knows how to exit when you’ve done it three times? You know the ins and outs of it, you know the ups and downs of it, you know the ideas you didn’t decide to execute on and the ones you did chase after and why. Like you’ve. Actually been through it from beginning to end three times, not even including the false starts and the mishaps, you know.

Dan: And so many of those.

Bronson: Exactly. We all have ton of them. And so I think it’s just the the quality of the educator is so important because anyone or not anyone, but a lot of people can put together a slick package, speak well on stage and have no clue what they’re talking about. Right. Happens all the time. And so I think that’s why it’s cool that you’re doing what you are.

Dan: I really learned the value of that. Yeah. I mean, really, I learned that firsthand with clarity. Right. So the messenger matters more than the message. And what I mean is, if you have two people say the exact same words or sentences and depending on the context of who the person, it’s not good or bad. I’m not saying that, you know, I’m better than somebody else. It’s just somebody who will resonate with my story and my approach and not with somebody else. So. Yeah, I think you’re right. The messenger matters a lot when you’re trying to learn. I know it has for me over the years.

Bronson: Yeah, absolutely. And now, you know, we’re actually one of the partners that are going to be working with, because I want our audience to get access to what you’re doing. And I’m going to read off three of the of the titles of what you’re going to be teaching to our audience just to get them excited for when we email them more details about it. The first one is no cost product development and true customer validation. I mean, it doesn’t get any better than that. I mean, we all need product development to do it, no low cost and actually get it validated as amazing. The second one is marketing growth engines and funding your dream. So you already mentioned marketing growth engines earlier. Kind of three pieces of that. I would love personally to dig in deeper on that one, so I’m excited to hear that. Funding Your Dream. You’ve raised VC money three times now you know what they want to hear and what kind of business you need to be a part of to actually make that happen. And then the third one is how to engineer your big money exit. So you really do take from idea to exit and kind of all the big milestones in between there.

Dan: Yeah. I mean my goal in that, that mini course was really just take, you know, again, those 1300 clarity calls, the thousands of talks I’ve given around the world that just kind of build frameworks that people can understand because I believe, like there’s an unlimited amount of content out there. You can go on core, you can Google blog posts, you can watch, you know, talks in advance. But what’s lacking is the context, right? So what I’ve done is I sat down, it took me six months to build out the curriculum for this program in these videos. And it was really just say, what do I believe about this topic and what are the things that are true and what are some of the best practices that I’ve had that I’ve seen repeated by other people? So I know that it’s repeatable that other people get the same results. And then I took that information. I created, you know, like diagrams and framework. So if you’re familiar with the Lean Startup, that’s one framework. Essentially everything I teach has its own framework. So for example, you know, the the no cost, you know, product development, I use a framework called clickable prototypes. So I actually teach people how I did it. I give you in the mini course, I’m going to give you a download to my clickable prototype that we use at Clarity for one feature. And we always build these prototypes. Even after we raised money, we raised 1.6 million. And it’s it’s a great way for you to not just build a landing page. People are like, oh, build a landing page and send traffic there. That’s not validation to me. It’s you simulate the product using clickable prototypes, takes you like 2 hours to build. I’ll give you the frameworks in the UI kits and use keynote, which is easy. Just click, click, click, and then you present that to a customer and you get early buy, right? And what happens is if you get a clickable prototype built that actually walks people through exactly how your solution is going to work, you show that to a customer, they go, Wow, this guy’s serious, it’s loaded, and you get them to buy it. I call that an app, an early adopter program. You get them a discount, but you do get paid and you take those two things. Then you go to a team of people that are world class. If you’re not technical and you go to like an engineer, meet up and again, I share the different places you would go to find those people. And you say, Look, I’ve reduced the risk of the market being there, already got preorders. Here’s the product that I need built because I’ve wire framed it or I created this clickable prototype engineers. The only thing that they want is to not build something nobody uses. That’s it. That is like they don’t even care about the money. They just don’t want to work on something that nobody’s going to use. So if you come to them with the product and the customers, then you de-risk the opportunity. That’s how you the bonus is you build a great team so that that I’m going to cover in detail first video.

Bronson: That’s awesome. And I mean, I can’t even imagine what, you know, all the other stuff that’s going to be kind of packed in there. So I’m excited, you know, to learn from it personally. I’m excited that I get to bring it to our audience here and that you were willing to reach out to us to to really share that info with them then like always amazing time with you, amazing episode and just thanks again for coming on Growth Hacker TV.

Dan: I really appreciate it, Brant and if anybody’s interested they can go to idea to exit online dot com too to get access to those videos they’re not launched yet. It depends when they watched it, but that’s the place to get it. It’s a pretty many course. And again, I just want to serve as many people as I can. So thanks for helping you get the message out.

Bronson: Absolutely. All right. Talk soon.

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