Are you missing opportunities to capitalize on your data? Camille Fournier was an engineer at Goldman Sachs before taking over as CTO at Rent the Runway. In this episode she pulls back the curtain on how she used data and analytics to achieve rapid growth.

Camille Fournier is known for being the former chief technology officer of Rent The Runway, former vice president of technology at Goldman Sachs, and author of The Manager’s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change. She is a managing director at the hedge fund Two Sigma.

TOPIC CAMILLE FOURNIER COVERS

→ Rent the Runway

→ A company that rents women’s designer dresses and accessories for short-term rentals

→ She is the CTO of Rent the Runway

→ Interviewed by Bronson Taylor on the program “Growth Hacker TV”

→ Discusses the company’s services, how it started, and their growth over the past 5 years

→ She pulls back the curtain on how she used data and analytics to achieve rapid growth

→ She managing director at the hedge fund Two Sigma

→ And a whole lot more

LINKS & RESOURCES

→ Rent the runaway website

→ Whilefalse blog

WATCH THE INTERVIEW

READ THE TRANSCRIPTION

Bronson: Welcome to another episode of Growth Hacker TV. I’m Bronson Taylor and today I have Camille, 48, with us. Camille, thanks for coming on the program.

Camille: Thank you for having me. I’m super excited to be chatting with you.

Bronson: Yeah, this should be fun. I was actually telling my wife about your company yesterday, and she was like, Ooh, that looks interesting.

Camille: Yeah.

Bronson: So let’s tell people you are the CTO of Rent the Runway. So first, tell us a little bit about Rent the Runway. What do you guys do there?

Camille: Sure. So we rent women’s designer dresses and accessories for short term rentals. So you can go on our site. You find some vessels that you love. You pick a date. We will ship those dresses to you. They will arrive at your house or your business or whatever you wear. Them look beautiful. Take pictures, have a great time shipping back to us and you’re done.

Bronson: All right. So is this stuff like big events, like proms and weddings, or is it just you want to go out on the town and have something nice?

Camille: Yes, all of the above.

Bronson: Gotcha. All right. So what year did you guys actually launch? When did the service start?

Camille: So we actually just launched five years ago, about five years ago and three days or something like that. November 9th is our anniversary. Very cool. So the company has been around for five years and it’s been a pretty wild five years. Yeah.

Bronson: Well, tell us, like, what kind of growth have you guys experience? I mean, I don’t know what metrics you can, you know, disclose, but, you know, number of dresses sent out or users or something. How big is it now?

Camille: So we have grown to over 5 million members. So we have 5 million people who have come on to our site, created an account and, you know, browsed enough to care about giving us their email address. Yeah, we have over 270 designer partners, so 270 designers who work with us to rent their products on our site, which is pretty awesome. We employ over 300 people now, so the company has really grown a lot. It’s kind of crazy. We have, let’s see. So we have inventory. We have over 65,000 units of dresses, inventory in our warehouse and over 15,000 accessories. So a warehouse is huge. We actually just moved into or we’re in the process of moving into a warehouse that’s four times the size of our old warehouse. So we’re going to 160,000 square foot warehouse, which is crazy. We’re going to have one of the largest dry cleaners in the United States. And, you know, we kind of do now will definitely when we move because we have all of these dry cleaning facilities, it’s just amazing.

Bronson: Is it is it fair to say that that inventory really is the big engineering challenge that you have to deal with?

Camille: It’s certainly yes, it’s certainly about at least 50% of the engineering challenge is just how do we manage that inventory? How do we make sure we account for it in the warehouse? So every order that we place, right, you place an order, you’re getting a rental. So we ship it to you and then you ship it back to us. So unlike traditional e-commerce, where mostly you’re focused on getting things out to people, we’re focused on also taking things back from people and cleaning them and inspecting them so they look great. And we have a whole staff of seamstresses and repair folks who go in and, you know, we’ll hem dresses and resell sequins and things like that. So, you know, it’s a very interesting physical challenge.

Bronson: Yeah, I know. I never really thought about it, but it’s almost like, you know, e-commerce times two, it’s two markets at the same time. That really is a challenge. So what do you think has been responsible for that kind of growth? I mean, to have that many registered users, that much inventory, that many designers working with you, you guys are doing something right. You know, you’ve seen from the inside what’s kind of happened there, what’s responsible for all this growth? What do you think?

Camille: I think it’s a lot of things. So first of all, I think that, you know, we are building a product that people want. You know, fundamentally, women know that they want to be able to experience new fashion. I mean, it’s really fun to get a new dress to wear just is even if you don’t have anything to wear it for. And so we know that women like they want that novelty. Many of them, especially when you’re going to a special occasion. So there’s already just that latent demand, I think, in the market also like that latent that growing awareness, I should say, of designer fashion being something that people really want to experience. Right. Everyone knows all of these designer names. We all watched the red carpet events. I’ve heard that the Oscar red carpet coverage is now more popular than the Oscars themselves in terms of how many people actually watch it. Right like that. That shows that people are interested. And we’re interested in what gown is she wearing? Not necessarily who actually wins the award. So I think that’s true. I heard that recently and I would wouldn’t surprise me.

Bronson: I wouldn’t know. So you can say whatever you want.

Camille: So I think, first of all, there’s just that demand out there that we are tapping into. But of course, there’s also just been a ton of hard work on the part of our business. So we have recognized a lot of things about our customers. We really understand our customers very well. For example, right, a lot of people think about fit as a problem. You hear about all kinds of products being launched where people are trying to like algorithmically decide your fit, right? So you have to measure this or you get 3D scanned, it’ll tell you exactly what fits. I personally am skeptical about that stuff, although I think someday it will work. I think it’s a really hard problem to solve. We approached Fit and a little bit of a different way with our business because we’re renting instead of selling. So we have lots and lots and lots of people who can be experiencing our inventory. So we created a photo reviews feature where women can take pictures of themselves and dresses and write reviews and boy, do they women want to help each other shop. They’re actually really excited to talk about the dress that they wore. Was it tight in the bust? Was it tight in the hips? You know, how did it fit? They share a lot of information with us about themselves so that other women can shop better, they can get products, they’re going to fit them. And I think that our strong intuition for our customer and what is important to her has helped this business be successful because, you know, we really are we’re not just cynically building a product, product that we think is going to make money. We’re actually building a product that we all really care about and that we are the target audience.

Bronson: Yeah. Would you say that really understanding your customer is just the number one lever that allows you to unlock all these other growth things?

Camille: I certainly think that is. Yes, I think that is a huge, huge, huge army. I mean, you know, without understanding the customer, you’re just you know, you’re applying sort of classic cargo cult techniques. In some sense, you know, you’re just like trying things, you’re flailing your cargo, sculpting, whatever. You know, you have to step back and think about why is it why is this person behaving this way? What makes her tick?

Bronson: Yeah. No, that’s awesome. I mean, that’s something we hear on this show, is that just the just the companies that really know their customer profile deeply, intimately. They know things that no one else knows. They’re able to do things other people don’t try because they think it’s silly. They’re just able to put together a product that makes sense, even though on paper nobody would have thought it would have made sense. So it is. I see this trend so often now. So as the CTO now, what does your day to day look like? I mean, we talked about managing the inventory. That’s 50% of it, dealing with all of the the code that kind of goes into that. What’s the other 50% look like? What are the things you have to do on a day to day?

Camille: Sure. So a lot of what I do is thinking about the strategy. Right. So, you know, as CTO, it’s a strategic role, which means that I’m thinking about not only where do we want to go as a business and what is the technology needed to support that. So for example, if we were to go from 270 designers to a thousand designers, or if we were to go from, you know, however many unique styles to ten times that be unique styles, what would that mean? What fundamentally needs to change from a technology and process standpoint so that we can support that, so that you can still have a great experience shopping on our site? So I spend a lot of time thinking about where are we going to be in a year and a half, two years, three years, so that we’re sure to be building software to support that. And then I also think about what can the software that we have built support that maybe the rest of the business isn’t thinking about. Right. So, you know, if you’re a marketing expert, but you’re not an engineer, you may never think about the potential that, oh, like this cool little toy that we built over here can actually be used to unlock this whole different market or, you know, make this better experience. Right. We will launch a thing called Unlimited recently, which is our subscription program. Right? So you can subscribe to Unlimited. It’s a monthly fee and it’s like original Netflix, right? Where you get three items, you could swap them at any time. And we launched this program this year in about four months. And what’s interesting about this program is that we had built out the fundamental technology that made it actually fairly straightforward for us to implement and launch. So if you were to build a program like that from scratch at a business, it would probably take you way more than a year to really get to the place where we got it in about four months with not with a small team, with a team of about six engineers. So, you know, thinking about how can we build software that supports, you know, business ideas and new businesses like that is a big part of what I think about in my day to day.

Bronson: Yeah, I like when I first ask the question, you said that you’re the CTO, so you have to think strategically about the business and you know, kind of vision of where you’re going. And I think some companies view the CTO as a strategic role and some think they just have to make sure all the code works. And I think that’s a big difference. And I like that you’re thinking about things big picture the vision, because you have to make sure the site is ready for the growth when it comes and that you’re using the code. You already have to grow into new places. So I like that. I think a lot of companies should think about their CTO as a strategic role. I think that matters. Yes, at that level it has to. Now, you before this were a engineer at Goldman Sachs. So yeah, Goldman Sachs. Right. I’m assuming, you know, algorithms for, you know, doing some kind of monetary thing and then you have this chance to go to rent the runway in fashion. Very different world. Were you afraid that kind of the the challenge wouldn’t be there with rent the runway when you first had the opportunity?

Camille: Sure, I know. Yes, absolutely. When I first heard about it, I was like renting dresses. Is that really going to be a technical challenge? And of course, the answer has been absolutely yes. I came to the business because I thought the business was amazing. And, you know, I thought that the business leadership, the executive team here was incredibly strong. And in particular, Jen, our CEO, is just a brilliant, brilliant woman. And, you know, I was like, wow, I she’s going to do amazing things, so I want to work for her. And so I came in and, you know, and the technology at the time was kind of a mess, as anyone who work there will tell you. So, you know, the technology was kind of broken and I thought the business was just a great business idea. So I said, okay, like, I can come in, let’s fix this technology and let’s go with it. And it has been I mean, it’s turned into just it. It’s been an amazing experience, right? The problems are there. It is not a trivial business by any means. Technology wise or any other aspect. You have to be managing so many different pieces to make this business successful. You have to create a website that is beautiful and functional and that supports all of these crazy ideas that we have about how you can interact. Because, you know, renting dresses is not traditional e-commerce. You’re renting something. It’s like a combination of the travel industry and the e-commerce industry. Right. Very, very few people, really. Nobody does anything like that. Right. Like when you’re renting a car, you’re getting a physical thing. You don’t really care very much. As long as it’s like the right size, right. You’re renting a dress, you care very much about the right thing. You want to get the thing that you are most interested in and you want that black sequined cocktail dress or that whatever, that long green gown. Right. You don’t want. Oh, some gown. I rented a gown. I don’t know what gown. Just some gowns going to come and I guess it’ll be okay. So it’s, you know, so there is that e-commerce element of shopping and browsing and understanding what the options are. But then there’s a travel element of actually it’s for a date, it’s for an occasion, it’s for an event. So, you know, combining those two worlds is just a really interesting technical challenge.

Bronson: Yeah, I’m glad it’s not a problem I’m solving. It sounds harsh, that’s for sure. You know, I’ve learned, though, that the things that look simple on the surface, that delight customers usually are incredibly psychotically difficult right below the surface, that when you really get into the logic of what has to happen to deliver this great experience, it’s mind boggling. And so this is something I’ve learned along the way. Launching multiple products is the stuff that looks complicated, sometimes simple, and the stuff that looks simple is sometimes unbelievable. Yeah. So let’s geek out a little bit. You guys do a lot with data and analytics. How important is data and analytics for Rent the runway right now?

Camille: I mean, it’s just incredibly important. We have always been a data driven business. We are always looking at the numbers for everything we launch. The minute you launch anything, the question is what happen? It’s like, well, okay, it’s only been out for 5 minutes, so we don’t actually know yet. But you know, everyone wants to know. We have dashboards all over the office and I am constantly just watching those dashboards and seeing like operationally what’s going on from a technology perspective, from an operations perspective, from a sales perspective, you know how many people are on the site. I just kind of always want to know the stats about everything and we are just always, you know, checking in on those stats and using that to learn and grow and guide to the business.

Bronson: Yeah, that’s awesome. Give me some specific examples. Like what are some things that data really became a game changer, that you launched something and the data informs what to do next or something was happening you weren’t expecting on the site and it made you change your focus. Like, Give me some details so we can spark some ideas of how we can use data in ways we’re not thinking about.

Camille: So here’s a very recent example. So we have recently gone through an exercise of thinking about how we price things on our website. So for a long time we were very sort of standard way of pricing for a certain percentage of the retail price. And occasionally we would tweak it a little bit, but that was it fairly straightforward. And we did an exercise where we said, okay, wonder what would happen if we lowered prices on some things. Let’s just let’s just see what happens. So some people coupon will actually just lower prices and as a result, demand went up. Awesome, right? So more people are renting. Now, you could take this one to it. So you could say, okay, well, we should just lower prices on things because that will increase demand and just sort of, you know, create a policy around trying to give people the lowest price possible. Or you could say, actually, what we really want to do is we want to think about what product X people are. Right. Price pricing. To define and make sure you have a good spectrum of prices, price points available to our customer for, you know, different dresses, for different events, for different styles. So that we’re really getting a Y and we’re able to provide very high, high cost items that make it a little more as well as, you know, things that rent for less. So we have a good variety of. So our analytics and data team actually spent a lot of time investigating what are the different characteristics that make someone more or less sensitive to a person but a threat. Right. So, you know, if you’re renting for a, you know, a dress that is like a gown, you may be less price sensitive, for example, because that’s a really big event. It’s a gala. You want it to be absolutely perfect. You’re willing to spend extra money to make sure you’re getting absolutely the perfect thing. So instead of just, you know, applying like doing a test and saying like, oh, well, that had the good result, we got higher demand applying that across the board. What we actually were able to do is be very thoughtful about it. So we understand we’ve built this demand forecasting algorithm that actually helps us understand like what are the demands for our various dresses based on how much they’re priced right now? Should we, you know, adjust the price at all to make sure we’re getting the most out of it?

Bronson: Yeah, that’s a great example. And even goes back to that original point of knowing the customer, because that’s the way you’re using data to really get inside the psychology of the customer and know what they’re thinking about the event that the dress is for. So it’s really tying together data with the customer, which seems like kind of the role you have as marrying those two sides, the people you’re serving and the and the the tech that helps you do that. Do you think there’s any room for intuition in a data driven company? Can you come to work tomorrow and be like, I’m pretty sure this will work, let’s just do it and run with it and spend a lot of resources on it, even though we don’t know for sure. Or is that just not okay? Well, what’s your what’s your thoughts on that?

Camille: I think that you have to have both. So I like to say that, you know, if you go to crazy with small testing and data, you do this sort of hill climbing to mediocrity thing where it’s like you get to a local maximum of value or whatever. But there’s a mountain over there that you didn’t climb at all because you didn’t know anything about that mountain. Right. You’re not you’re not looking for it. You’re not you know, you’re not finding it. Right. So you have to be you have to have some level of intuition and understanding who the customers. And this particularly goes for when you’re thinking about a new business. Right. So no. Very rarely, I think, do startups start because somebody looks at a whole bunch of data and they were like, Aha! Let’s change that number. Really? Right. It’s like, Oh, I see this market and I see this market opportunity, right? Like Jen and Jenny, they saw that women were wearing dresses once and never wearing them again because they were going to an event, they would be photographed. They’re putting the photos on Facebook and they were like, Nobody can see me in this again because I’ve worn it once. And they said, you know, that’s an opportunity, right? People are people want this product. Right. And that was intuition. Now, once we had the intuition, of course, we are building on that intuition through a foundation of data. But data like about data that I think is important to remember is that data explains what happened, but it does not necessarily predict the future. People think that data is going to predict the future. That’s not necessarily true. Right. Data explains what happened. And you use that understanding of what happened to keep yourself grounded in reality. But that doesn’t mean that therefore the data tells you exactly what to do in the future. Now, you absolutely have to have a sense of intuition of what is important to the customer of where the market is growing, how your audience is changing. At a startup, you have that early adopter portion of the curve, right? Those people, for example, may tolerate a really slow, crappy website because they really want to rent a dress. That’s great. And I’m glad for those early adopters.

Bronson: Not going to have to cross the chasm.

Camille: Exactly. It’s not going to cross the line. When you get to that sort of middle portion of your adoption curve, you need to have a better experience. People are not going to be as tolerant of failure and things are changing. The data that would have said something early on is going to say a very different thing later on. It’s not predicting the future. Right. So, you know, so I absolutely think that data is, you know, incredibly, incredibly important. But intuition and understanding and willingness to take risks and learn from those risks is also very important.

Bronson: Yeah, what an awesome answer. I love that. I just want to print that whole thing out and like make it a blog post or something. I love what you said about, you know, a startup begins with an intuition, with seeing a market because the companies that succeed long term, they consider themselves startups. I think Steve Jobs even said, you know, we’re the biggest startup on the planet. You know, it’s like that’s a hundred, you know, hundreds of billion dollar company. And yet they want to have that view of their world because that’s how you stay the frontrunner. And so I like that intuition, the startup mentality, the let’s have intuition that shows us new mountains to climb, not just local maximums. That’s awesome. But you have to have the data to get to the local maximums, which are also important. And so you just really need both. I like that outlook. Talk to us about maybe best practices around data. And this is kind of a vague question, but. Because I’m leaving it open for you. Is there certain ways to to, you know, access the data that your team has? Is there certain best practices around sharing the data? Is there a meeting once a month about data only? Like tell me some of the insights that rent the runway is found out about how to make data actually meaningful to the company.

Camille: Yeah. So here are here are a few thoughts I have. So first of all, I think successful data teams have to have an incredibly strong sense of product ownership as well. So we run the runway. We have actually. So ironically, I do not manage the data team around the runway. So we have a chief data officer, chief analytics officer Vijay and he runs data engineering, data science and analytics. And then we also don’t run product. So we have a head of product. Sara And she runs product management. You are a UX designer and then I run product engineering and technology operations. So we actually, the three of us all work as peers. And it’s been very interesting to me in this role because I’ve gotten to really observe those three teams and how they work well together and how they don’t. You know, Vijay and his team, they care about the product almost as much as Sarah and her team do. And my ship cares about the product as well. But, you know, I don’t think that you I think that you can be a successful software developer at many companies without being like totally the in love with the product. Like, look, I worked in finance for six and a half years. I don’t care about finance and I was very successful and I enjoyed my job and I had a great time. Right? So as much as I think that loving a product is great, I actually think you can be a successful software engineer and not be totally like product focused all the time. I do not think you can be a successful person in a data organization without that, and of course you can’t be a successful portion of product organization. But that. Right.

Bronson: So why is that? Why is data different than, you know, the other side?

Camille: So I think that data is different because because you have to have a sense of what is important. It’s really easy if you are a data person, you’re surrounded by so many, so many things you can look at so many things you can investigate, you know, so many reports you can write or draw conclusions that you can can try to seek out. Right? Because, you know, a bad data person is someone that’s just like, oh, I’ve got a report, I’m going to run this report. Okay? I’m, it’s like, well, we might just automate that, right? You know, you’re just sort of waiting to be automated.

Bronson: There’s no insight there.

Camille: Right? Or some insight, exactly. Whereas what we really look for, analytics is insights. And in fact, you know, we were speaking of like, how do you get this data out to the company? We have monthly analytical insights meetings where our data team will actually, you know, stand up and they will talk about some interesting things that they have observed about the company or that they’ve learned through the course of their analysis. And so it’s so important, I think, for data teams to not forget about that sense of what is important to the customer and what is important to the business to help them focus it and not just say yes to any request for a report that somebody asks, but instead ask the question like, is this really the important thing for us to look at? Or is there information somewhere else that we should be investigating?

Bronson: Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense. Now, how many engineers do you oversee right now with your role?

Camille: So my team is about 55 right now. Wow.

Bronson: So 55 engineers. All right. So one and I want to talk about this for a minute because I think it might be helpful to our viewers one of the big growth challenges, if you’re successful with marketing and product and data and your company actually does grow when you get revenue, it means you have to hire a bunch of engineers like you all have. That’s a big growth challenge for a lot of technology companies. So I want to ask you, how do you find 55 engineers to work in a fashion technology startup? I mean, it’s you’re not recruiting in the Google, which is what they went to college thinking they were going to do. So how do you recruit 55 people to work for you?

Camille: Sure. So I think you know a few different ways. So I believe in engineering leadership. I am very passionate about being a leader and growing leadership. And I think a lot of engineers are actually very hungry for that. A lot of startups run their engineering teams as sort of either like, you know, places where you just sort of send work to and it gets done and it gets sent back or, you know, they’re quote unquote, flat teams and we’re all equals. And and that’s great. But there are a lot of people that they want to figure out, how can I be a leader? How can I grow? How can I learn how to not necessarily manage, but take larger areas of responsibility and ownership? And so I really look for people that are interested in that because I’m passionate about that. And people that are interested in that often find the runway to be a very interesting place to work because we’re a great place to learn how to take on bigger areas of responsibility and ownership, whether it’s through management or not. So that’s sort of one one way we look for people that are. Very entrepreneurial. And that, you know, as much as I say that you don’t have to care about the products to be a great engineer. A lot of our engineers are very product focused and because we work very cross-functionally. So we have this pillar structure at our company where we have high level strategic goals, for example, making a better customer experience post order. So you’ve got in your or you’ve made your order. You want to be able to adjust your order, but you should. People do that on your phone. You have to call someone on the phone and we’re on hold to talk to them to be able to easily do it. Look what can be done with it. This was a big area that we knew we needed to focus on this year, and so we actually have a pillar around that where the people in that pillar are focused on very specific goals towards that, so towards increasing that ability to do post engagement and increasing the experience there. And that team is not just engineers, it’s not just product management, it’s engineers and product management and design and analytics. And people who represent our customer service team in full represent marketing and they all work together like a little bit of a mini startup to think about, okay, what are our goals? Right? Here’s the high level direction that we need to be working in. How do we break that down into a roadmap of projects that we’re passionate about that we believe are going to improve this experience? So I think that because we as a company give engineers the ability, whatever their level, to be incredibly involved in the decision making process and really like be working very closely with other peers, not just hearing but across functions and learning from that experience. I think that is a big driver for people and coming down the runway.

Bronson: Absolutely. If I was an engineer, that’s the kind of environment I’d want to be in. Do you allow engineers to work remotely or do they have to be onsite there?

Camille: So for the most part, they are on site. We let people work from home a little bit.

Bronson: If you don’t like it or something.

Camille: I actually it’s so so it’s tough because like, I think that different organizations can function differently with remote work. So I’m a big open source person. I do. I work on a few different open source projects. And, you know, I think that like sort of core technology infrastructure work like that lends itself extremely well to remote work. And I have friends that run companies where like half of their workforce is remote or like Mozilla is a great example of a company where they have a ton of remote workers on the workforce and they’re building ultimately an open source products and they have this great sort of very explicit workflow. It’s really hard, though, for a company like Red The Runway, where the product and the teams that are not just engineering to work so closely together with engineering, it’s important that you be able to sit down and look at someone to talk through your differences and understand their point of view and collaborate. And I think that that’s that is still very difficult to do remotely. So right now, we do have people that are pretty much on site. And I would like to get to a point where we can have more remote work, and I think there will be areas where we’ll be able to support that. But at this point, it’s just so important for us to be able to just quickly turn to our product manager, turn to design and be like, Hey, I have a question about this. Like, how should this really work? What if the customer clicks here? Like, what do we really want her to experience?

Bronson: No, it’s good. I’m almost seeing like a framework emerge from this conversation because when we talked about the data analytics team earlier, we talked about how they have to love product because insights are involved. And now it’s almost that same idea. The people that are programing on site, they are the ones that may be on site are because insights are needed, the ones that can be offsite. It’s not about inside. It’s just about core infrastructure. It’s like building the kernel of an operating system. No insights. Just make it work, you know? And so it’s like the more insights, the more discussion, the more cross-functional, the more together, the more infrastructure, the more, you know, other stuff, the more further away you can be. And I think, like I said, I see that framework kind of emerge there. All right. I have a couple of last questions here. This has been an awesome interview. Two more. This is a question I started asking because I got fun responses to it and people seem to like it. What are you working on today right after this interview at Rent the Runway? Like, even if it’s boring, if it’s a meeting, if it’s awesome, like, what are you doing right after this?

Camille: Okay, so I do office hours every week. You’ve actually interrupted my office hours. So I do almost every week where I where I basically open my calendar up to appointment slots. And people who don’t report to me, who don’t normally have one on ones that they can book office hours and we’ll chat about whatever they want to talk about. So I have an office hours appointment after the this wanted to talk to one of our engineers. I’m not sure what you want to talk about, although hopefully it’s about site performance because I have been looking at that and I’m very interested to hear what he has found. So that is what I’m doing immediately after this meeting.

Bronson: Awesome. See, I’m learning how to, you know, do cool things in a company from that question. All right. Last one. What is the best of. As you have for any startup that’s trying to grow.

Camille: The best advice I have for any story that was trying to go broke is. Well, that’s a good question.

Bronson: I want people to know something.

Camille: I have I have a lot of advice for any Starbucks trying to grow. Pick one.

Bronson: And he’s the one best.

Camille: Pick one. I think I to pick one. The bigger piece I say is, the more time you can spend getting clarity around things, the better. I think that it’s very easy for you to sort of just assume that things are going to work out. So, for example, you hire someone into a role and you say, okay, you’re running marketing. I have a vague idea of what running marketing means. So you’re going to be, you know, I’m hiring you because you’re you seem to be good at this. So this will all work out. If you can be more clear about. Okay, no, but really, these are the goals that we need our marketing team to achieve. And this is what we want someone who would be running marketing to do the better your that outcome will be. Or you know, I think another way that this manifests itself is like company values, right? So core values are some companies take that very seriously. We are one of those companies that take core values extremely, extremely seriously. We have them plastered on our conference rooms and in our warehouse because we truly believe that core values are a really important part of creating a healthy company culture. And we took the time to think about what they should be and to write them down and to share them. And they’re part of our review process and they’re part of our onboarding, and we’re always in the back of our mind able to think about that because that gives us a framework for who we want to be. Right, even as we grow and grow and grow. How do you remember who you are? Right. How do you keep that sort of startup spirit, that value, whatever it was that started you? Right, whether it’s like we value, for example, happiness and positivity is a choice is one of our values, right? We value creating a workplace where people feel happy and excited to come to work and they feel like they can get things done and they’re not going to be bogged down by a ton of negativity. Your values may be totally different, but having thought about them and written them down and shared them and really be clear about what they are. I just think that that is the kind of thing that you the more you do it as you grow, the better outcome your outcome is going to be.

Bronson: Yeah, that’s great advice to end on Camille. So thanks again for coming on Growth TV.

Camille: Sure. Thank you very much for having me.