As a former evangelist for the Apple Macintosh, Guy Kawasaki knows how to grow a product. Guy teaches us the stupid things that startups do to hinder market adoption, and how to think about sales and distribution.

TOPIC GUY KAWASAKI COVERS

→ The importance of making it easy for users to share experiences with others

→ The mistake of requiring immediate registration for new users

→ The significance of creating a seamless user experience

→ Why having a good website and content is really important

→ How to properly understand customer needs and provide value

→ Building trust with the customer

→ The importance of focusing on customer acquisition and retention, rather than just acquiring new customers.

→ And a whole lot more

LINKS & RESOURCES

→ Ape the Book webiste
→ Guy’s blog

WATCH THE INTERVIEW

READ THE TRANSCRIPTION

Bronson: Welcome to another episode of Growth Hacker TV. I’m Bronson Taylor and today I have Guy Kawasaki with us. Guy, thank you so much for coming on the program.

Guy: Sure. It’s bright and early in California in a role.

Bronson: That’s right around lunchtime here. So I’ve been up for a little bit. Now, guy, you don’t actually need an introduction, but I’ll give a quick one just in case people don’t know who you are. You actually helped market the Apple Macintosh back in 1984 as the first official Apple evangelist. And since then, you’ve had an incredible career as an entrepreneur and investor, an advisor, a writer, a speaker. The list goes on and on and on. You’ve done a few things, and I know you have a new book out called Ape, Author, Publisher, Entrepreneur, and it’s an awesome book. I read that, but I actually want to talk about one of your previous books just because of our audience. I want to talk about the book Reality Check, and I’ll hold it up here so people can get a good look at it. For the ones watching the video, the best way to describe reality check is it’s kind of like the Bible for startups. I mean, you give entrepreneurs, you know, advice on everything from venture capital to the art of leadership and everything in between. But you have a lot in there about marketing and distribution and how to grow a product. So I want to dove into some of those things. Sound good to you?

Guy: Yes, sir. First of all, let me correct something you said. I am not or was not the first evangelist. The first evangelist was a guy named Mike Boyd. So I’m actually the second evangelist.

Bronson: Oh, okay. Maybe Wikipedia has me saying the wrong thing there. I’m not sure.

Guy: I’ll go fix it. Okay.

Bronson: There you go. Well, you’re the most well known evangelist. I can say that.

Guy: Yeah, well, there was Jesus before, but yeah.

Bronson: That’s true. Now, in this in the book Reality Check, you have a list in there called Stupid Ways to Hinder Market Adoption. And everybody watching this once market adoption. So let’s not do the stupid things you say. One of the stupid things that people do is to have enforced immediate registration. Why is that a mistake?

Guy: Well, because at the beginning, you know, first of all, you’re lucky that a company has discovered you at all. Right. And so, first of all, now you’re you’re that far. And then what do you do? You put a fence in front of them as soon as you know. I mean, this would be like so you start a restaurant and finally you get people to come to your restaurant. And the first thing they encounter is, well, you have to have a reservation. And then you look in the restaurant, there’s nobody sitting anywhere. You say, No, but you need a reservation. Like, Why don’t you just tell people, We don’t want you to eat here, so you need to lower all the barriers. And you know, some people in and when people start loving what you do, then you’re going to ask for a registration, then you can even ask for payment. Yeah, I don’t do it upfront. I mean, why make it harder on yourself?

Bronson: Yeah. So it’s really about timing. You need the data, you need to register at some point. It just doesn’t need to be the first step way to they love what you’re doing and then you’ll get everything you need. Yeah.

Guy: Well, what a what a good test is. Would you like to have to register as the first step for this restaurant or for this website? And probably not. So why are you asking people to do something you wouldn’t do?

Bronson: Yeah, that’s very true. The next one is really good. It’s obvious, but it’s good. It’s. You say there’s a lot of ways to share an experience. Walk me through that.

Guy: Well, if you if you have this great experience, this great computer is great following this great website, you should make it as easy as possible to share this, to share a blog post, to share YouTube video. You know, all of these places now build in a way where you click on one button and you tweeted, you click on another button and it’s Google Plus and you you click on this other button that it’s Facebook. Oh, that’s an example. You shouldn’t make people say, Wow, I really like this blog post. So what I’ll do is I’ll, I’ll go up here, I’ll select the leg, a copy it, I’ll open up my email client. I’ll find the people in my address book who might like it. I’ll paste it in and send it. I may not have. It’s not happening. Not happening.

Bronson: Yeah, no, that’s absolutely true. You know, on growth hacker TV, I’ve buried share buttons all over the place and at some point I feel kind of ridiculous, like, all right, do I really need a share button here? And then oddly enough, I’m watching Twitter and there they are, people using them day in and day out. And people will share things if you give them the opportunity. But like you said, you know, the hard part is getting experience. They want to share. Don’t let the hard part be sharing it, right?

Guy: Well, yeah. Just yesterday I discovered this new website called Click to Tweet and it will it creates a little snippet of code that embeds into your documents. And it literally says, you know, click to tweet. And and the way I discovered this is someone who does work with me. She put it in an email newsletter that I publish and it was clicked to tweet to tell people about this free offer. Four eight. We’re giving a boy right now. Wow. So I was on Twitter and I saw like dozens of this identical tweets saying, you know, have you gotten guys for your book? Have you gotten guys Cory Booker who had like 60 of those and like Hoda, how does 60 people tweet that all of a sudden? It was because it was in a newsletter and all they had to do was click to tweet what it said. Yeah, what a concept.

Bronson: You know, what’s at the top of my to do list right now I kid you not is add click to tweet to all of our emails that go out from growth out of TV because we send out new emails about hey, new episode. So you know, I try to I’m going to send Europe a sold out today. If it all goes well, I’m going to add a click to tweet in the email for the first time in your episode that goes out and we’ll see what happens.

Guy: I bet you you’ll be stunned.

Bronson: Yeah.

Guy: Because I was just blown away. I think that, you know, if you count the tweets and the retweets, because this is just, you know, this is this is what I call agency math. So when you have an agency, this is the kind of bullshit math they do. Right? So let’s say let’s say they call, I don’t know, 100 tweets. So they say a hundred tweets and on average, people have maybe a thousand thousand followers. So they take 100 and they multiply by a thousand and you get reach now and they say, Well, I got to reach a hundred thousand. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, and .01 percent of that is going to buy the book. But yeah.

Bronson: Yeah, exactly. Agency math is not real math.

Guy: Yeah. Well, the other hand, what the hell? Right.

Bronson: Yeah, you know, you put it out there, there’s a chance. I mean, it’s not bad to try as I could cost you anything. The marginal, you know, cause there’s nothing.

Guy: So I’ll even .01 percent is better than 0% true.

Bronson: That’s true. You know, the next thing you say is having a lack of feeds and email list is one of those stupid ways to hinder market adoption. Talk me through that. It seems kind of similar to the last one.

Guy: Yeah, well, you know, it’s one thing people want to share a blog post or share a video, but that’s after they’ve read it or after they filed it. So the question is, how do they find out about it? And, you know, to this day, I think email lists are probably the most powerful way. Yeah. That, you know, even on on all these social media networks, I mean, stuff is just flying by, right? And like, let’s say that, you know, your part of the audience is Pacific Time, but even if you’re even if you knew everybody, if you knew all your readers lived in California. That doesn’t mean they all have the same habit. That doesn’t mean they all read it. Seven or eight or nine. Or they read at lunchtime or they read at 4:00 or the other day or they read at 7:00 when they get home. So, you know, stuff like that, they’re not going to scroll back through a thousand tweets that either you made 8 hours ago. So, I mean, that actually leads to two things. I repeat the tweets. Mm hmm. So that’s one that, you know, not everybody agrees with. But the other is, if they’re on an email newsletter, they probably they may get 200 emails a day. But 200 emails is still less than, you know, the thousands of tweets and the thousands of Facebook posts and the thousands of other things that you’re competing with. So email is quite effective to this day.

Bronson: Yeah, the signal to noise ratio on email is still better than the signal to noise ratio on any social network.

Guy: Scary to say that. But yes, that’s yeah.

Bronson: I mean, it may not be someday, but today it is. So, you know, we have to go the channel that gets people’s attention still. Now, at the end of this list, you say, quote, Adoption is in the details. And I love that because I’ve built a lot of products and I feel that deep in my bones. But tell me what you mean by that, that adoption is in the details.

Guy: I mean, that, you know, people love to talk about these big visions and these big trends and all that. But at the very end. I think a lot of the agenda there is your product, your service, doing one thing or a few things. Really, really well. Mm hmm. And so an example that I use, I use Buffer to post many of my social media things. And it’s because I could send it to Buffer, and Buffer will put it out on schedule, spread it out during the day. It won’t include the picture. It didn’t the picture properly, you know, all this kind of stuff. And if if you don’t know much about social media and you just listen to what I said, you might not understand what I just said. But if you do understand social media, I just. It is very powerful.

Bronson: Huh.

Guy: So it’s it’s this kind of detail thing that once you get into something, I mean, in a sense, it’s like any other maybe a good example is cooking. So, you know, there are people who are really great cooks and they they have like this one knife to do one specific thing, right? Or they have this one tool to just, I don’t know, just grind macadamia nuts. And and and they tell people, oh, yeah, you know, if you really need to grind macadamia nuts, this is the best tool in the world to do it. Mm hmm. Not everybody needs to grind macadamia nut, but if you do, I mean, that’s the tool, right? That’s all it takes.

Bronson: No, it’s a good example. We actually just bought some new knives, and we have a dedicated tomato knife. And so now every time I’m going to cut a tomato, I grab that. When they told me it’s the best tool. It is the best tool. I use it. I’m happy with it. So that’s just the way it goes.

Guy: Yesterday, believe it or not, I was having an email conversation with people from Blender and they told me they make a new kind of not the base blender, but the the glass cup thing. And it’s made specifically to make butters. Butters. Okay, that’s the butter. Peanut butter. You know, I got all that butter what ever it is. So it’s just designed for that. There’s something on the on the inside that pushes it. I guess butter is really sticky, so it has a special thing that pushes the back into the middle. Right. And that’s a very specific use for kind of blend tech. I don’t know what they call that thing, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bronson: But that’s what you need. You’re not going to go buy some general purpose one and try to make it do it.

Guy: Yeah.

Bronson: No, that’s good. Now, you also have a chapter in the book on selling, and I think some of the insights here are just incredible. The first one might be my favorite thing we’re going to talk about today, which is see the gorilla. So tell me, what was the gorilla experiment and what do you mean when you say, see the gorilla?

Guy: Okay. So there was this experiment where a professor at the university, I think of Illinois, he did a thing where he told people, he told experimental subjects to watch a video. And in this video there were people tossing balls, black balls and white balls to each other. And so the task was something like count how many times they threw the black ball or count how many times they threw the white ball, whatever it was. And in the middle of this video, a guy in a gorilla suit comes out, walks around, you know, does stuff, and then leaves. So after the the video ended, there’s the question, like, did you see anything? And apparently only 50% of the people said, yeah, somebody came out in a group suit and started dancing around. So half the people didn’t see the gorilla.

Bronson: And it was obvious.

Guy: And it was very obvious. You know, we say it’s very obvious, but, you know, we could be in 50%. That’s true. So the message there is, is sometimes you’re in the middle of something and you don’t see the gorilla or the example in real businesses. With Apple, we were trying to make Macintosh a spreadsheet database and word processing machine, but in the middle of this, people started embracing desktop publishing. Mm hmm. So messed up. She was the gorilla. That’s what saved the Macintosh as a marketing agency. Yeah, because we could, but we couldn’t see it because we were so set on spreadsheet, database or browser. So that spreadsheet database or browser was the equivalent of watching the people throw the black in the white balls. Meanwhile, there was a gorilla called Desktop Publishing. Took us a while to figure it out.

Bronson: Yeah. So the staff’s watching this. They need to really understand there’s entire markets that are waiting to throw money at you that you literally do not see, even though they’re standing right in front of you and you have to change your frame of mind, do something, jar yourself to see what only half the people really see.

Guy: Right? Right. That’s the message.

Bronson: Now, that’s great. And the next thing you say is also a really good insight from Apple. I think sell don’t enable buying. Most people just enable buying. Hey, there’s something for sale. You can get it if you want. But what does Apple do? And what a great. Companies do.

Guy: Well. So means, you know, you get pushy, you get promotional, you take it to them. Some people might find that distasteful, but those are the poor people. I mean, you have to do it. I mean, a great is iPhone, iPod, iPad, Macintosh was I mean you need to push it down people’s throats. And and the very earliest you know, certainly the most cogent representation of this today is probably social media that, you know, a lot of brands, they just they don’t use social media well at all. It’s like total wimps. If you look at most brands, if you look at the Facebook page of most brands, they post once a day. Okay. And that just fricking boggles my mind. Mm hmm. And I and it’s. It’s either stupidity. But arrogance. So let me explain the stupidity part. You’d have to be pretty stupid to assume that anybody who’s interested in your product is going to see one post a day. I mean, that’s like saying ought to advertise a new computer on TV, but we’re going to add we’re going to run that ad at eight air area because people are going to be so interested that they’re going to stare. Right. That is just it’s stupid. The arrogance. Part of it is I think some people believe that our posts, our page, our social media presence is so freaking awesome that 8 hours after we post, people are going to scroll back in the timeline and find out we post. Right. So I say our advertising for our product is so awesome. That people are going to TiVo advertising. So we’re going to run the data and people are going to come home at 8 p.m. and they’re going to know what happened 12 hours ago on TV. Let’s just go back on TiVo and find that ad. And I would draw smoking. So so what I’m saying is, man, Bush, you got to if you push four or five times, they get hey, I mean, if people watch ESPN or CNN, they’re running the identical video ten times. And that’s not because they’re stupid. Yeah, it’s because some people watch TV at different times. Now, all the agencies this is getting back to agency logic every is but tell you they quote know that the optimal number of polls per day is one and you ask, well, how do you know this? And they say, Well, we just know that’s how agencies do things. They just frickin know. Right? So, I mean, you know, if this is the we tried we tried for a day and we got well, I spoke to an agency and they told us once per day we get X shares, we get X comments, we get X plus logs. Right. If we post four times a day. None of those polls have the equivalent of that one post. Okay, so let’s look for ease of use. Let’s say if you post once you get X shares of legs or whatever people four times you get one fourth X per day. Let’s just say when I hear that, I say, well, you know, is that the most important thing? The number of comments and likes and shares. So even if one has more than or but if the four added up equals more than the one, you should post more.

Bronson: Absolutely.

Guy: I mean I mean, I’m not a math major.

Bronson: But you know what? I finally seen the light with this because I started looking at the Twitter accounts that have a ton of followers being added every day. You know, the Course Metrics blog, for example, they put out so many tweets every hour and people just love them. So I started putting out tweets all day long from our account. I start sending emails now as much as I possibly can. I’m pushing. I’m selling. I’m not just hoping somebody shows up. He buys it up and it’s working. Nobody’s mad.

Guy: But but you know, you know what else brands and agencies will tell you? They’ll say, well, when we did this, we got a lot of feedback. So I asked them, well, what is quote? A lot of feedback. Is that, oh, like five or ten negative comments, I’m going to unfollow you, you’re spamming, you’re posting too much. I said, so let’s do some math here. So you have them in and a half followers. You posted four times, ten people complained. So ten people out of a million and a half complain, Hey, what’s wrong with you? You’re like, you know, like, so you you would rather not risk losing ten people. Versus making sales for the other 1.49 million who might buy like a you idiot. I mean, okay, so maybe four, but that represents 100 pissed off people. But so what’s I mean if you piss off 100 people, whether you reach 1.48 million people or whatever, that’s a trade off I would make all day long. You know, what’s wrong with your brain?

Bronson: And you know what? The people that are complaining, they’re not going to buy anyway. If it’s that easy for them to complain, let em complain. People email me, you know, a complaint about, you know, all your service is not working. I’m like, okay, like, I don’t care. Like, do whatever you want. I mean, it doesn’t matter because there’s too many people that love it for me that actually care about this one small instance that does not represent reality people’s complaints. Tell me more about them than about me.

Guy: Exactly. I, I invented a acronym which is aka you see them, right? Okay. So now when people complain to me on Google Plus, I say, well, just echo and everything what they are instead for. They think it’s, you know, a abbreviation of F-you. C.K. Yeah, right. But it really stands for Encircle Me. It’s like you said, you know, I get Ofcom, I’ll go with you. Can’t take a joke, you know, what do I care? Yeah, it is. They I don’t know. They just can’t relate to someone telling them off. I mean, it’s it’s like to me the analogy I use is if you turn your TV, QVC, okay, turn your TV on QVC and they advertise thermally and the sterling silver bracelet, then the, you know, the the massage thing. And then the next thing is some special flashlight and then the next thing is special jump rope. And then the next thing is a special window cleaner, right? And then you say, Man, I am so sick of advertising, you know, how dare QVC advertise this to me all the time? In fact, it thermally brazenly repeated twice. I saw it twice. I watched for 8 hours and I saw the same ad two times. How dare you advertise to me? What the hell’s the matter with you? Change the channel. You put it on QVC. You don’t like QVC? Go to see. What do you want?

Bronson: Absolutely. That’s great advice right there. I love that. All right. Now we have to talk about distribution, because I know you got to go in a few minutes here. Yeah. I mean, you got great advice on this. You tell us to separate distribution from virality. And I don’t think a lot of companies make that distinction and it caused them to not make some key decisions. What’s the difference? What’s distribution, what’s virality?

Guy: Well, I mean, you know, you’re talking to a guy who believes in broad distribution. That’s good.

Bronson: I mean, I’m thinking about.

Guy: Who I am. Who am I to decide that you should buy it for a specific way? Mean if you want to buy it online. God bless you. You want to buy a catalog? God bless you. Welcome to the store. God bless me. I want to go to Kmart. Lord bless you and buy Best Buy. I don’t care as long as you can buy it. So now I understand a certain exclusivity and all that. But I think, again, it’s I have to think is either stupidity or arrogance. Now, you know, I suppose if you’re Rolex in your pocket or you can get away with this. But you know, how many of your listeners are Rolex or Porsche. So, you know, let’s let’s cross this bridge. You want to go to it? You know, I would like to have a problem once in my life where, for example, my book my book is over distributed. It’s in too many stores. Those people don’t feel exclusive because everywhere they go, they see my book. They go to the airport, they see my book, right? They go to they go to Walgreens. They see my book. They go to Kmart, they see my book. They go to Costco, they see my book. This is a high quality problem. I absolutely break for the day that I have this problem.

Bronson: And so distribution is really getting your product or service in the channel in front of people in all these different ways. Virality is really getting the product to kind of spread itself and make it one of those sort of, you know, in-built things. But we need both. We need distribution channels and we need virality. And you’re saying just plastered everywhere.

Guy: If you if you lack distribution? I don’t see how virality can happen. Right.

Bronson: You need distribution to see virality, don’t you?

Guy: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s the point. The flipside is also true. You need virality, meaning a good product. Otherwise, why would the distributors carry it?

Bronson: Because they’re not going to sell and they’re not going to make money and they’re not going to care.

Guy: You involved? Well, duh.

Bronson: Yeah, no, that’s great. And then the next thing kind of is it falls in line with that to allocate responsibility when you know you need both. Now you can allocate responsibility, right? Hey, you. Your job is distribution. Get us deals. Get us in front of people. Hey, you’re job engineers, product people. You are on virality. Make that happen. And they’re both spreading the product, right?

Guy: Yes, absolutely. No, that’s great.

Bronson: Now, when it comes to distribution deals, partnerships, obviously, you know, Apple has those, they’re in Best Buy and those kind of things. But there’s a lot of partnerships that startups can have, whether it’s software as a service, whether it’s some. Digital good. They’re selling me whatever they’re doing. There’s partnership opportunities for distribution. And one of the things you say is obey the law of big numbers. This is a big one. What is the law of big numbers?

Guy: Well, the big numbers is you got to get it out there. You have to take a lot of shots to figure it out. I’m going to throw not.

Bronson: Oh, bless you.

Guy: Oh, you guys. Oh. Oh, hell, man. All right, just talk about the breach and you make me go. So the law of big numbers is you need to take a lot of shots, you need a lot of experience. You need to try a lot of distribution.

Bronson: And distribution with channels that are big. They have a lot of numbers, right?

Guy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It takes a while. You know, I’m advising Motorola right now and God, I learned how hard it is to get phones into the channel. You know, in some South American countries, it take weeks to flow through the channels. So it. You know, not everything is Amazon one click here.

Bronson: And I will take numbers for the end of the funnel to make sense.

Guy: Yeah, it really does.

Bronson: That’s great. The next thing is you say you look for adjacency when you’re looking for these distribution partners. The example you gave in the book is like eBay and PayPal. They’re adjacent industries. That’s important. Is it because you can really run the coattails of companies? They’re almost like, you need what you’re doing but different, right?

Guy: Where your products complement each other and people eBay’s, you know, maybe the best example of that. Yeah. I mean, I can’t get much better than that. Yeah. I hope you don’t ask me for another example in real time. There’s two or three more.

Bronson: But I can’t remember them either. No, that’s fine. But that’s the way a startup has to think, right? Is, you know, if I’m PayPal, who’s my eBay? If I am eBay, who’s my PayPal? Right now, everyone listening to this, they have an eBay. They just don’t know who it is yet because again, they’re not seeing the gorilla. They’re not seeing what’s adjacent, what’s possible. And they have to really open up their minds, like, who can you do business with to open up whole new channels of big numbers to really get your product out there and also say, go ahead.

Guy: I’ll give you an example. So with my book, eight, so eight says, are all the publisher entrepreneur? And it teaches people how to write a book. And so, you know, what is a company that really wants people to write more books and in particular to self-publish them? Okay, so list which company would really love everybody to write a book and self-publish Amazon. Right. Amazon would much rather you write a book self-published through Kindle, then to write a book and maybe get it published by some New York publisher. So Amazon is eBay and I’m trying to be PayPal. I’m trying to help help Amazon get more books by getting more people to self-publish. So I try to work with Amazon to get the book out. And it’s good for Amazon because the more people read my book, more self-published books, the better it is for them. Right is good for me because I sell books. Yeah. So I think that’s an example of adjacency.

Bronson: Yeah. And sometimes you have to educate the adjacent markets about what you bring to the table. You have to go to Amazon and say, look, here’s what I can do.

Guy: Not sometimes. Every time.

Bronson: Yeah, every time. Because they’re also not seeing the guerilla the opposite way.

Guy: Well, but, you know, the problem is that every entrepreneur comes to their eBay saying, this is what I can do for you. Right. So. Then there is an Amazon or an eBay or whatever it is. They’re probably getting 50 to 100 plays per day and nobody comes up and says, I’m a piece of crap company who can’t do Jack for you. Because if everybody said that, you’d be different. But everybody says, you know, I could do this for you, Amazon, I can do for you eBay. I can do this for you. Apple when I was at Apple, every day people would come up and say, you know, there are 10,000 shrimp farmers, so you should pay me to do farming software for Macintosh and like, you know, 10,000. Sure. Farmers, that’s not our market. No, no, no, no, no, no. You we I could drive you into that market. And the next phone call is, you know, avocado farming and the. Yeah. And the next one is dental, legal, medical, chiropractic. Ah, the search. You know, everybody wants to do your favor. It’s very hard to separate who truly is a people and who is just trying to blow smoke up your butt.

Bronson: Yeah, no, that’s very true. The last thing we’ll talk about with distribution, which might be the most important one, is focus on revenue. Right. People focus on other things, don’t they? They focus on, you know, like you said, they got tweeted, but they had this many followers. Here’s my reach. They’re actually focused on how much money did I make?

Guy: Well, you know, at the end of the day, you either made a sale or you did it. Yeah. And it is that true? Now, obviously, there are long term sales. There are you know, there are ways to get into the market, you know, etc., etc.. But at some level, I tell this to startups all the time, at some level, sales fixes everything, man. As long as you’re selling, you’re in the game. Yeah. And a lot of people don’t like to hear that. You know, they but in terms of keeping your investors happy, your employees happier, everything happy, man. It’s all about sales.

Bronson: Yeah. No startup has ever went out of business because their vanity metrics weren’t high enough.

Guy: Not that I know.

Bronson: Yeah, it’s. It’s it’s money. All right, we don’t have time to dig into this, but you have a great section on do it yourself. PR in a nutshell, in a couple sentences. What does a startup need to do to do PR instead of hiring an agency?

Guy: Well, the simple answer to that is it’s almost like seems like insultingly simple is, you know, the key to a PR is to have a great product. You know, because I tell you something, it’s I’ve evangelized good stuff and I’ve visualized crap and it is a lot easier to evangelize good stuff. So 90% of PR is having a good stuff. So this means either align yourself with good stuff or create good stuff. But the concept that a PR professional can successfully market crap is false. I mean, obviously it has happened in history, but it’s the harder way. Yeah. So this is called Guy’s Golden Touch, which is not whatever I touch towards the gold. I wish that was true, guys. Golden touch is whatever gold guy touches. That’s the.

Bronson: Key. Good. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, yeah, that’s great. All right, last question, guys. This has been incredible interview.

Guy: Just ask question. Four times are pretty rare and this really.

Bronson: Is the last one. Calm down. All right. What’s the best advice you have for any starlet that’s listening?

Guy: Probably the best best advice.

Bronson: They’re trying to throw. What’s the best growth advice.

Guy: To try to grow? I would say get your ass on social media that that, you know, it’s not a fad anymore. It’s not an experiment. It’s going to happen. Get on it, you know, get over it, figure out how to use it. You know, if you’re a restaurant figure, I get 60,000 followers and you can tell them, you know, we have Thursday night special or whatever. And the way you get more followers is you provide value, not just not just advertising and promoting your crap, but, you know, telling people if you’re, for example, continue with the restaurant. So if you’re a restaurant and you have a social media presence, don’t just talk about your specials. Talk about, oh, did you see the National Geographic special about how people catch tuna or something? Not probably just offender, all the tuna lovers in America. And they’re going to let you know right into you say, how dare you? Yeah, you know, say slaughter of kind fish or whatever. Right. And so, yeah, let’s say there’s an article about how to brew coffee or how to clean your coffee maker or I don’t know what you know, the proper way to cut a tomato with the special knife, right? So the restaurant, social media should tweet that stuff out. It has nothing to do with the restaurant except that it adds value. People are going to reshare that you’re going to get more followers. So think of yourself like NPR. NPR puts out great content all year long and every once in a while you run a telethon. That’s how you used to be thinking content all the time. You earned the right to run the telephone. That’s.

Bronson: That’s great. All right. What do you want to pitch for giving away your book? How can we get it? Is that what you want to promote right now?

Guy: Let me get one for you to show it.

Bronson: All right? Absolutely.

Guy: Okay. So this is a book for author, publisher, entrepreneur. It explains how to write a book, published a book, and then sell the book. Even if you’re not writing a book. The E part of the entrepreneur is just a great guide to using social media to sell anything. And so right now, it’s just about the first anniversary. And so we’re giving this book away a Kindle format. And all people have to do is to go to eight for the book, book slash anniversary. All right. It’s a code that you can enter the Amazon to get it free. If you’re not in the U.S., send an email to AIP dot the DOT book. At Gmail dot and we’ll get it to you another way. But if you’re in the U.S., just go ape the book dot com slash anniversary.

Bronson: Yeah. And I listen to the audio version of that book because you have an audible also. It is an incredible book if you are trying to write a book self-published. It would be foolish to do it without first reading that. I mean, it would be absolutely foolish. So, Guy, thank you so much again for coming on growth out of TV.

Guy: Thank you. Good luck to you.