Julian is the founder of Zaragoza Marketing, a company that specializes in mobile funnel optimization, email database management and retargeting/banner campaign optimization.

TOPIC JULIAN FARLEY COVERS

→ The goal of Zaragoza Marketing

→ His goal was to bring a more professional approach to Internet marketing

→ The company helps clients sell more of their products through direct marketing

→ Zaragoza Marketing focuses on the intersection of direct marketing and mobile marketing

→ Direct response marketers typically have 30-40% traffic from mobile devices

→ His goal is to make the process more user-friendly and easier on mobile devices.

→ Zaragoza Marketing uses a variety of methods to drive traffic to their campaigns

→ His company’s use of carrier billing for mobile purchases

→ His predicts that there will be no mobile banner ads in five to six years.

→ What conversion rates for mobile campaigns

→ His thoughts on Google Analytics

→ And a whole lot more

LINKS & RESOURCES

→ Zaragoza Marketing

→ Julian’s linkdin

WATCH THE INTERVIEW

READ THE TRANSCRIPTION

Bronson: Welcome to another episode of Growth Hacker TV. I’m Bronson Taylor and today I have Julian Farley with us. Julian, thanks for coming on the program.

Julian: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Bronson: Absolutely. I think it’s gonna be a fun interview. I think we’re going to introduce people to some ideas that might help them here. So you run a company called Zaragoza Marketing. Is that correct?

Julian: That’s right.

Bronson: So what is their goal of marketing?

Julian: Yeah. So so we are a direct response marketing agency. So we work with large direct response marketers and basically anyone who sells products online that we just help them sell more of their product.

Bronson: Yeah. And you really focus on direct marketing to push product, basically.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah.

Bronson: How did it begin? How did it come to be?

Julian: Yeah, that’s that that’s interesting. So my partner now he what he works really in the corporate world. And he’s he’s just a he works on like larger campaigns with like Audi and Cisco and the Google companies like that. And I worked in the I’m from the extreme extreme Internet marketing direct response world. And so we just we just we’re always talking about different ideas that we had. And I was like, Oh, you guys need to do this. And he was like, Oh, well, what about this? Or Can we use it this way or anything like that? And we just realized that in his world, none of them are doing any of the direct response stuff. And and in my world, there is in the, in the Internet marketing world, everything is kind of like it’s much less professional, I would call it, than than in the corporate side. So. So we were just like, well, there has to be something that we can kind of work on together and really kind of get it going and at least do some exciting stuff that no one else is doing just because we both could could hopefully to bridge this divide that that is there. And so we just started it and we actually started off with search engine optimization and and we just kind of have have iterated and changed stuff and just we’re always testing different things that work. And whatever is working the best is what we’re going to do for our clients. So our business model kind of evolves very naturally.

Bronson: Yeah, it seems like you guys have kind of an interesting impetus of just bringing these two worlds together. Why do you think these two worlds are so far apart? Because I think you’re right. I think they are very far apart. I can’t imagine Audi really understanding Internet marketing. Yeah, but why are they? It doesn’t seem like they should be.

Julian: Yeah, that’s a really good question, I think. And for the Internet marketer side, I think there’s just so many people who they’re they all they’re all start ups, they’re all their own small entrepreneurs and and they just, they just don’t either have the resources at the time or really that they’ve had stuff work that wasn’t corporate side or wasn’t professional in nature or anything like that. So. So they just kind of go down their, their one alley, just think about it that way. And then on the corporate side, I guess it’s kind of the same thing that that they that the it’s like the opposite, that they have to be so professional. They have to be so so kind of kind of in their own box so that they’re that they they haven’t really looked into the Internet marketing world or or when they do, it just looks funny to them because it it’s a funny little, little niche market. And so they don’t really dig deeper into it at all. So, but, but they really should because particularly now with the way the economy is and it’s, it’s like your marketing dollars have to get spent wisely. So. So it really is a big benefit to the to these larger companies if they would embrace a little bit more of what small guys do.

Bronson: Yeah. Well, let me ask you about how it went so far. I mean, how have your corporate clients reacted to some of the Internet marketing techniques that you’ve kind of introduced them to and implemented for them? What’s the reaction to the hated? They love it or are they confused by it?

Julian: They are. It’s mixed. It’s definitely mixed. So usually what will happen is we’ll get I’ll get my foot in the door with someone in the company who’s very, very positive about it and and is willing to try some new crazy stuff out. And then once that that happens, then usually there’s a lot of friction inside the company because they’re just like, what is this? What is this campaign? Or How is he doing this? This is this is totally weird. But but once you show them results and that’s the nice thing about the Internet marketing world is everything is so trackable, you really are like, okay, look, you spend $100 or you spend $10,000, whatever it was, you spend X amount of dollars on this campaign. And this is exactly how many clicks you’ve got. This is exactly how much money you made from it. So, I mean, at the end of. De money talks. And so they kind of come around or more often than not, they come around to. To see the light.

Bronson: Yeah. No, that’s good. And I was looking over your website for Zaragoza Marketing. It seems like you guys operate at the intersection of direct marketing and mobile marketing. So you’re really doing direct marketing on mobile devices seems to be a big part of it. What made you guys want to focus so much on mobile?

Julian: Yeah. Yeah, well, so, so kind of it was more impetus from the non-corporate clients. And so the direct response marketers, they they have, they have about on average, about 30 to 40% of their traffic is mobile and their normal traffic. So their desktop traffic will converge at about 2%. So 100 visitors, 2% will actually purchase on their mobile traffic. It was it was 0%, 0% to sales. So like nothing. So I’m like, look, there’s 30 to 40% of your traffic that’s converting at 0%. So there’s got to be a way that we can figure this out. And so we just started kind of thinking outside the box, coming up with some some ideas, and we tested them and they, they, they, they work a lot better than 0%.

Bronson: Yeah, a lot. A lot does. Yeah. So why was it a 0%? I mean, it seems like such a huge drop off. I mean, 2% is not incredible, but it’s a lot more than 0%. Yeah. Why was it zero or close to it anyway?

Julian: It’s because people don’t. And still now, I mean, nobody fully understands mobile and and how users really interact with it. It’s a lot more. You have to be a lot more user friendly and just a lot more simple. So just simple things like a lead gen form. So someone comes to your site and and they give you their email. They hit submit like that. Those types of forms where converting will convert at one one and a half percent on mobile. And it’s just because it’s a pain like people get. They go to your site on their phone and then in order to read anything, they have to zoom in and then they have to type in on their small keyboard and then they have to hit enter. It’s just a pain. So so we developed a page that someone hits hits the page and it well, some of them we’ve done some split tests. They look like apps or sometimes they don’t. But basically they hit your page and all they have to do is click one button. They don’t have to type in anything that is click one button and they can send you an email and then they’re they’re subscribed to your list. So basically instead of typing in their name, hitting, submit, doing all this other stuff, they just hit two buttons and and you’ve got their email list.

Bronson: Okay. So you’re just rethinking what direct marketing looks like on a mobile device, just given the screen size, given, you know, the frame of mind they’re in when they’re there. And so when they click a button, it actually sends an email from their email account attached to their phone, and then that sends you an email and that’s how they sign up. Is that what you’re saying?

Julian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bronson: That’s that’s that’s clever. I like that because I send my self emails all the time for that same reason. I don’t want to type out stuff and I don’t want to take notes in the note app or whatever. So I literally just send myself emails from my phone all the time. And so it’s interesting that I’ve never really thought about using that as an opt in, but it makes sense, though. Mm hmm.

Julian: Yeah, it’s.

Bronson: Cool. I like that.

Julian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s very, very effective. And on like and just order forms. That’s the other thing. Or the forms and sales letters in the Internet marketing world, there’s these long video sales letters and we cut them. They’re like half an hour, 45 minutes long. We cut them down to seven, 8 minutes, make them a lot more, more user friendly on the phones, and then the order forms we make them. So putting in your credit card information and all that is really a pain. Again, you got to do all the zooming stuff, you got to type in a bunch of stuff. We make it a lot easier just with like kind of drop downs and they’re just clicking a few buttons here and there.

Bronson: You know, makes a lot of sense, you know, on your site also, you talk about how you guys have really thought about the whole funnel, you know, from beginning to end, trying to really maximize every part of it. Walk us through a funnel that you might use for like a direct marketing mobile campaign, kind of where does the traffic initiate? You know, they they land on the page. You tell us a little bit about the email address and then what happens like walk us through that process a little bit.

Julian: Yeah, yeah, sure. So so I mean, every client’s different as far as the traffic. Traffic comes at some clients, it’ll just be we’ll just go out and get affiliate traffic, which is other people really send in the traffic. It’s a lot of emails, but but when we’re doing the media, we do a lot of Facebook, a lot of Facebook ads, a lot of email media is really good too on that, just buying or renting email list. And then they promote promote whatever product we’re selling. And then and then there’s some good mobile actually some good mobile networks and there’s, there’s I’ve been using Millennium Media. They’re, they’re really good for, for these types of kind of. Direct response campaigns. And so we just go out there and we buy the traffic, will buy Facebook ads, whatever, drive them to go to the site, and specifically the mobile traffic and then the search. So the first thing they’ll see is, is typically this opt in page that makes it really easy for them to just kind of give you their email address. And then you can you can email market to them. But so, so that’s the first step. And then once they have, once they’ve sent that email and said, Hey, I’d like the the free report or I want to get more information from your company on upcoming specials or whatever it is. Then after that, then they’ll see a video. So, so we show them this, this typically called the sales video. And it’s like I said, we shorten it. So it’s about seven or 8 minutes long and we really just kind of run through the benefits of whatever we’re trying to sell to them, the the the pros of getting it and kind of get give them some content, too. That’s that’s one thing where mobile differs from desktop traffic. On desktop traffic, you can kind of actually get away with these 30, 45 minute videos without giving too much content on them. But mobile people have even smaller attention spans that they want something out of it immediately. So, so, so. So we give them two or three really, really helpful tips or give them something to think about that they wouldn’t have known before. And then we just kind of go into, okay, well, this is the offer, this is how much it costs this product. And then after that, the test that we’ve been running now is, is there’s we actually put now that whatever button we want them to click, if it’s an add to cart button, typically we’ll put that embedded inside the video. Okay. So, so people on their mobile phone, they don’t even have to. Typically what they’d have to do is click out of the video, scroll down and hit their hit that car button when said Now we actually have an embedded inside the video.

Bronson: Okay, so using like Ace HTML5 kind of stuff, they’re using one of the off the shelf solutions like what is that a flow player or something like that or what do you guys use the you know.

Julian: We’ve used flow player there’s actually this one new company that that came out that that has a lot of really cool technology in it and it’s called question mine and you can find about question mine dot com and and they have all of this built in super easy to make.

Bronson: Okay.

Julian: And the main reason for them actually coming out and developing this technology was that inside videos, both non-mobile and mobile, they can put questions in the video. It’s kind of like you’ll do a choose your own adventure video. So it’s really, really cool because the questions are just embedded in videos, but, but so we actually typically use them to put these add to cart buttons in the, in the videos and then, and then the order form. Like I said, we’ve got this one over two form. That’s, that’s we’ve proven gets really good conversion rates because it’s easier to work. But we’re also now testing carrier billing. So, so, so instead of putting in your credit card information, your name, your address, all that stuff, all the all you’ve got to do now is just type in your cell phone number. And then whatever product you’re looking at is going to be the bill will show up on your cell phone bill. It just gets added.

Bronson: Yeah. How easy is that to integrate? I’ve never messed with it personally. Is that just tremendously harder than other forms of payment or is it really easy? I don’t know if there’s APIs or what.

Julian: Yeah, we actually got hooked up with a good there’s a few platforms out there that are already built out and and they already have their agreements with Verizon and AT&T and all the major cell phone carriers. So so we just plug in with them, the one that we use called Boku. Okay. And that’s the Boku B OCU. Okay, perfect. And, and they actually do all the, the mobile payments for Facebook and Spotify.

Bronson: Oh, wow. Okay. So.

Julian: So they’re pretty legit.

Bronson: And they so.

Julian: That they have some good some really good technology, a great platform. And so so we’ve been using them for that.

Bronson: That’s great. And you mentioned at the beginning of the funnel, you actually do the media buying sometimes for the companies. They might do it on their own or they might have traffic for some other way. But when you do do the media buying, is there any advice you have for us for like what we should know when we’re doing specifically media buying for direct marketing mobile? Or is it really just the same advice you would get if you’re buying ads on desktop or or wherever it may be? Is there anything that we should know if we’re trying to do direct marketing on a mobile device?

Julian: That’s a good question. It is. So the overall campaign structure and optimizing it is is essentially the same. You got to kind of change your numbers up a little bit because like I said, typically you’ll get one 2% conversion rate mobile will even with a good optimized funnel and. East is for as far as we’ve been able to optimize it, you’re still it’s still going to be difficult to get those types of conversion rates, but you’re at like on normal media, you’ll be at $0.50 to a dollar click and mobile, you’re at like $0.05, $0.07. It’s just dirt cheap. Yeah. So you just kind of need to go into that mindset that you like. Like the numbers aren’t going to line up with what you’re used to seeing. Yeah, but other than that, it’s really just the inventory. So. So there’s, there’s different types of network. There’s a lot of different mobile networks. And, and I’ve I’ve tried a lot of them, really. The two best that I’ve used have been jump tap and millennial millennial media. And and they just have the best, the best inventory as far as as far as what sites you get on, what apps you get on. But but even having said that, I am pretty confident that in five years, six years from now, that there aren’t going to be any mobile banner ads.

Bronson: Okay. Why do you say that?

Julian: It’s I mean, it’s just a new medium. We kind of saw it on when the Internet came out and I wasn’t around. But I’ve read that that it’s what happened when TV came out. Basically what happens is like says TV comes out and like all the ads right away or just just like people sitting there reading a radio ad script is they’re just like, Oh, well, this works on radio, so it should work on on TV. And I see that being the same thing as what’s happening on mobile with ads, although there’s you can get it to work and we’ve gotten mobile media to work. Most people don’t have it working. And I think a lot of users are annoyed by buy ads on on their mobile phone, about a third and about 25 to 33% of ads on them on a mobile phone. All the clicks you get are actually by accident.

Bronson: Yeah, trying to hit the x and missing x is huge. And the ad is small.

Julian: Yeah.

Bronson: Yeah. I mean, opposite way. The X is small. The ad is huge. Absolutely. No, that makes sense.

Julian: So I think I think it’s going to move more towards apps. So seven, five, six years, I don’t think mobile marketers won’t be doing ads anywhere. I think I think they’re going to be their own apps, giving away free apps for stuff and then upselling and ad. They’ll be like, All right, $2 to add this to that app or $3, you know, it’ll just be kind of small payments here and there.

Bronson: Gotcha. So instead of trying to annoy you on someone else’s experience, they’ll create their own experience that they can sell to you through. Is that right?

Julian: Yeah.

Bronson: Yeah, no. Makes sense. I mean, it’s only makes sense now. You also have mentioned split testing a few times, you know, since we’ve been talking here. So I know you guys are running split test. So what does a typical split test look like? Like what kinds of things would you be changing in a split test on mobile to see which one works? And this may be mundane, but for people watching, you know, they’re learning. They’re saying, oh, that’s the kind of thing you might split test for, so don’t be afraid of being boring for a second. Okay? What do you guys split test for on the mobile?

Julian: So the short answer is everything. But. But yes. So we’ll split it. We’ll split test at the beginning of the funnel. So we always start with the lead gen page because that’s the page that everybody sees. And we see how many times say, like I said, it’s two clicks. You click once and then you get your email browser pops up with a canned email. And so, so we’ll work well. The first test is always let’s test the copy and the headline and the images on, on that first page. So for instance, we tested like, like our landing pages have a little envelope, a button that’s like, hey, click here, and then you send us an email. So we split a text that verse animated envelopes that shoot across the page, and we see what gets the most clicks. And the animated one actually seems to get about twice as many clicks.

Bronson: Oh, wow. I want to go another way around. I hate animated stuff. It’s surprising. That’s all editors, you know, because you just don’t know.

Julian: Yeah, you never know. You never know. And so we test headlines and images mainly on the on the first page. And then the second page is actually the email is the email browser. Well, well, your email client pops up with your email that you’re going to send us. And so we split test the copy on that. Okay. So like, hey man, I really want that report that you sent me or we’ll be like, get the, send this email now get this report and we try all this kind of different just stuff to see, see what works. And it’s always surprising. You never know what what’s going to convert better.

Bronson: Yeah, absolutely. No, that’s good. Do you use any tools to help facilitate your maybe test or is it really just you guys, you know, doing it by hand and crunching the numbers by hand? Or do you have any shortcuts, any tools you use?

Julian: Yeah, that the the, the one that most people use is website optimizer WC or whatever. We actually just use Google Analytics. Mm hmm. Google Analytics has been I mean, we’ve tried some other ones like optimize early and stuff. But Google Analytics to at least four four. What we’ve seen seems to be the most accurate and gets really good data and it’s completely free. So yeah.

Bronson: Does this Google Analytics automatically serve the two different landing pages or the two different AB? Or are you just serving one and then kind of manually switching it over and serving the other and then comparing the stats? What are you doing there?

Julian: So Google Analytics and in there analytics are on the left side, you can look up like how many people came to your specific page on your site? Mm hmm. It’s in, like, the content area. Underneath there, there’s an experiments tab, and it takes it takes like 3 minutes to set up a split test and they’ll actually send. Okay. If you if you’re testing for different pages, they’ll send 25% of the traffic to page one, 25 to page two. And so they just split it evenly and and they’ll even tell you when it’s statistically significant. So they’re like, okay, this, this test is totally run. This is the winner. And so so.

Bronson: It’s feeding them different URLs and they’re then just, you know, divvying out the traffic makes sense. Have there been any surprises? You know, I mentioned the melting a second ago, but has there been any, like big surprise there, like, huh? I totally didn’t see that. But it’s kind of what the AB test showed us.

Julian: Yeah, they’re so on on mobile, it’s probably been we’ve got like what’s called an exit pop off of off of some of our, of our pages. So that’ll be like when someone basically when they’re done and, and they look like they’re going to leave, we’ll show them another page to try to get another offer in front of them. And we just always did text. We were like, Look, this person’s going to leave. They don’t want to like hit any other buttons or anything. But we split, tested that versus a video and the video converted three and a half times better.

Bronson: They’re getting ready to leave, and then somehow they’re ready to watch a video. Yeah. So did you know they were getting ready to leave because like time on site without clicking something or what was the indicator that you thought they were getting ready to leave it.

Julian: Yeah. So it’s actually when, when it, if they click. So the way the landing page works is if they click anything that they’ll go to the, the opt in form. Ah sorry the email but if they click cancel out of that then we assume that they’re just going to leave without, without converting. So that’s when we actually pop up that second.

Bronson: So they don’t want to send you an email and sign in and then they’re ready to watch a video. Yeah, that’s great. That is surprising. You wouldn’t expect that at all. And that’s why be testing is is you have to do it now because we don’t know. Yeah. Another thing that your firm does a lot is retargeting. It seems to be kind of the other emphasis that you guys have. It’s like direct and mobile is a big emphasis and then retargeting is a big emphasis. What kinds of retargeting do you typically do for your clients? What does it look like?

Julian: Sure. Yeah. So so the the two main types of retargeting are search retargeting and site retargeting. And so search retargeting is you can actually when someone like searches for for some term on on a search engine and there’s lots of there’s actually more than you realize there’s search engines on like Lowes dot com if you just go to the site and you search for something and that you can actually start showing those people banners when they’re on other sites based on what they they search for.

Bronson: Oh, okay.

Julian: So, so that’s search retargeting. So so we’ve done some of that that the the main thing about what we do more often than that is actually site retargeting. So that’s someone comes to, comes to a client site and they don’t convert, so they don’t become a lead or sale or anything and they just leave. Then we’re able to show them banners basically wherever they go on the Internet, on other sites, we can get the client’s banners in front of them and bring them back to get them get them to convert.

Bronson: Yeah, I think that’s probably the most magical thing that advertisers do right now is retargeting. It’s like when it happens, you’re just like, how does the internet know? Like how does it knows of ads what tools you use? You mentioned, you know, the search retargeting, which I’m not familiar with, what tool to use to do that and what are some of the other platforms you use for retargeting?

Julian: Sure. Yeah. And so so there the search retargeting, there’s really I mean, there’s a few networks that will do it. The best network that I found is called Chengdu. Sichuan Go is one of the first first companies in the search retargeting space. That’s C, H, A and Geo.

Bronson: Okay, Chen, go. All right.

Julian: So search and go for that. And then on the on the site retargeting, it really depends on on the types of campaigns that that you’re running. But the different networks would be Google actually has a really good that they call it remarketing so they call it something different, but they have a really good, good solution. AdRoll is a really, really good solution that they’re actually I think they’re owned by Google now as a lot of companies are. Yeah, but. Yeah. Admiral and Google are really good if if it’s like a corporate corporate client because they have really good tracking. They have really good. So you can split test banners and and they actually optimize a lot of the campaign for you. Yeah. The and then the other the other networks that we use are retarget her which is just free target.com. And then there’s one that’s been around for a while which is fetch back. Okay. And so really like the way it breaks down for our clients is that we have like a weight loss client or someone in kind of a health niche. They seem to get better for whatever reason. I think it’s just the ad inventory that that you actually get to serve your your banners on that they seem to work better on fetch back. And so that’s really the only time I’ll use fetch back. And then if we’re using like really, really hard core direct response marketers, then, then I’ll usually put them in with retargeting because because you’re paying. So every time your banner shows whether someone clicks on it or not, you’re going to pay. So you pay per impression. Mm hmm. And and. And retargeting is, like one fifth cheaper, one fifth the price of, like, every other network.

Bronson: So, yeah. Are there conversions one fifth worse or is it the conversions still are pretty, you know, similar.

Julian: Yeah, their conversions are pretty similar. They won’t be quite as good I think. And I think that’s because the network that, that you actually show and banners aren’t as good but. But they’re but they’re, they’re pretty solid so it’s a better CPA. So that’s why if I’m if I’m with someone who was really like, look, I can I’m only going to spend $50 to get a sale, then it’s like, okay, I’ll put you on with retargeting that’s going to it’s going to do.

Bronson: And we just had Brad Flore on the program a few weeks ago with a perfect audience, and they’re doing retargeting with Facebook. So you’re out on the Internet browsing around, and now you’re getting sort of Facebook ads when you’re on Facebook that’s being retargeted from sites Iran. And then would you just, you know, taught me about the search remarketing. You put it all together. You’re on social networks. You’re on, you know, search, you’re on the website retargeting. I mean, you can almost retarget anything now. So it is it is a pretty cool thing. What should people know if there is anything they should know before jumping into the retargeting world? Is there any kind of best practices, tips, tricks or watch out for this? Like anything they should know before just thinking, oh yeah, I’m going to throw some money retargeting and watch the magic happen. Yeah.

Julian: Yeah, yeah. So there’s, there’s two main things. One is the impression cap. So it’s called impression cap, which is how many impressions are you going to show a user per month? And anybody who has been I’m sure this has happened to everybody. If you’ve been retargeted and you just get really annoyed because you see the ad all the time, it’s just taking over your browser. That’s not that’s not good retargeting. That’s, that’s, that’s annoying. It turns users off. It’s basically spamming them, but it’s, it’s totally legal. So you can do it. But, but those campaigns don’t even convert, convert very well. And unfortunately, if you listen to the networks, they will tell you to do that because they get paid on a per impression. Yes. They’re like, yeah, just blast out like 200 impressions a day per user or whatever. And it’s just crazy. Yeah. So, so the control that I always use is about 14 to 18 impressions per month. That per year. That’s a Yeah. Per user. Yeah. That’s all you really need. And if you’re doing more than that, sometimes it’s okay. But I mean I’ve got one client who’s in the in the survival market, so it’s like that show Doomsday Preppers. He sells to people like that who are preparing. And so if they know that they’re being retargeted, they see a banner ad following them around and they get really freaked out.

Bronson: And there are two doomsday people. They already thinks he’s watching them all the time. So they don’t need Big Brother to be more obvious.

Julian: And they. And they have a lot of guns. So you don’t want this.

Bronson: That’s right. Now, that’s great.

Julian: So, so so for those campaigns, I’m like not even 14, 15. I started my like five or six, six a month.

Bronson: Yeah.

Julian: So so you don’t spam people that that’s number one. And and then number two is just just really the banner. So, so how often your banners get clicked is called your click through, right. And since you’re paying per impression, if you double you, if you do some really good banners and you double your click through right then, then how much you pay every time someone clicks gets cut in half.

Bronson: Yeah.

Julian: So it’s really important to get, get some good banners or at least just try a bunch of banners and see which ones work and just cut the ones that down.

Bronson: Now, that’s great advice for retargeting. Lastly, a few questions here to close out Brad a little bit. What have been some of your biggest wins with some of your corporate clients or does any of your clients really, you know, where have you kind of mixed, you know, this mobile and. Direct stuff or maybe the retargeting stuff and it’s really had, you know, successful campaigns with it.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for asking that.

Bronson: Of course. I got to give you a platform to brag a little bit if you’re gonna come on the show. So.

Julian: So it would definitely be as far as the corporate and direct response side would be in, in kind of doing CPR marketing for them. So, so we’ll go to, to some of these guys and they’re paying like they’re just blasting out tons of ads, but they they at least can break it down to like, I pay $80 per lead and I’m like, look, just, just let me like, let me just run some of your your campaign will be able to just just we’ll get you the same amount of leads, if not more. But I’ll be like, put that in half. And, and we, we ran this one campaign for these guys. We were getting $80 leads and we’re like, Oh, LinkedIn will be perfect for you because you can target people on that specific job levels or whatever. And we were getting them under $7 leads.

Bronson: And that leads to like over $50 leads. Yeah, yeah. Now that’s great. And that’s a that’s a huge kind of win for you. And just to show our audience, like Internet marketing, like when you understand how these tools work and the power that’s really in them, what kind of final question here to give back to our audience a little bit, what advice do you have for someone who really wants to understand the stuff that you understand? Maybe they want to understand mobile marketing or direct marketing, interest and retargeting. Where should they begin their journey? What kinds of things should they be doing to sharpen their skill set now?

Julian: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a that’s a great question that the the best place on mobile marketing is actually mobile marketer dot com that that’s like an aggregator site and and they write their own articles but they’re really just writing articles about the news of what’s going on. So. So that that’s really one of the best, if not the best source for for that information there. Yeah. There’s a blog by a company that really just specializes in mobile for all corporate clients. And that’s. And see, I’m trying to find that exact domain, but it’s basically I would find it real quick. You get M.C. Saatchi Mobile, then they have fantastic content and then they take content everywhere. So it’s M.S. s a t c h i mobile dot com.

Bronson: Perfect. Well, Julien, it’s been a great interview. You’ve given us a ton of actionable insight into Internet marketing and kind of how it can marry the corporate world. So thanks again for coming on the program.

Julian: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Bronson: Absolutely. Talk to you soon.

Julian: But.