Samir has managed over $1B in growth marketing. There is a reason why he’s asked to speak all over the world about startup growth . I’m excited because today we are going to dive into the Samir growth framework, which he calls the 5 P’s of Growth.
TOPIC SAMIR COVERS
- He managed over $1B in growth marketing analytics
- Which he calls the five pillars of growth
- A reason why he asked to speak all over the world about startup growth
- What happens when people within a startup have different ideas of what they’re trying to accomplish
- What does this PE look like
- How does a startup master the platforms
- How does he stay abreast of all his knowledge
- And a whole lot more
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WATCH THE INTERVIEW
READ THE TRANSCRIPTION
Bronson: Welcome to another episode of Growth Hacker TV, Bronson Taylor. And today I have Samir Patel with us. Samir, thanks for coming on the show.
Samir: Hey, it’s been it’s been wonderful to be invited. It’s a privilege. Thanks so.
Bronson: Much. Absolutely. I mean, with your resume, you’re the exact kind of guy that we want on this show. So to introduce you all to Samir, I want to give our audience a staggering stat, which is that Samir has managed over 1 billion in growth marketing and analytics. I mean, that is quite a number. There’s a reason you’re a growth mentor of 500 startups. There’s a reason that you speak all over the world about startup growth. And I’m really excited because today we’re going to get to dig into your growth framework, which you call the five pillars of growth. So let’s start with the five pillars of growth. You know, old school marketing has the four P’s, right? Product placement position, you know, that kind of stuff. Yours is the five piece of growth. What made you want to have a growth framework?
Samir: Yeah, very good question. So I think what you know, I was trying to you know, I’ve been in marketing for almost 15 years, a digital marketing, and it has evolved as you know, you know, there’s so many moving pieces, so many new channels, new platform, new winners, new ways to market. And I was trying to get my head around like if I had to if I had to, you know, run a huge growth or, you know, advise a public company or even a startup. Right. In terms of not necessarily tactics like what little things to do to tweak your growth, but on how to plan and execute right on a daily basis. And I think that’s when I wanted to incorporate everything without making it too general. Right. So what it does, I think that what the library is famous does is pretty much lets you plan and execute better and more smoothly over time. Yeah.
Bronson: What happens? Let me ask you this first. Do you think there is a too much emphasis on tactics and not enough emphasis on kind of the big picture?
Samir: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I’ll tell you a little story. So there were there were three, three men in India who decided to go out on on a you know, on a road trip. Right. And they were on the board. And, like, they had they had some hash. And, you know, they would go they’re pretty much drugged up. Right. But they were super enthusiastic about drawing the guard, the board. And they kept growing and growing and doing all night. Right, all night. And in the morning, they woke up and they realized they were still at the shore. They had forgotten. Do you know the anchor? The boat, right. The rope was still tied to the anchor. So that’s what I see. I think tactics people want to roll because they have so much energy. So it did it start doing shit all over the place, but they don’t think where they’re going. Right, or if they’re even. You know.
Bronson: I love that story. I didn’t know where we were going with the you know, with the hash and the boat. But I like the moral of the story, which is you need a plan at a higher level instead of just having a lot of activity. You know, one of my favorite quotes is, you know, don’t confuse accomplishment with activity and people do that. Yeah.
Samir: Yeah. And it’s easy to start like going into tactics really fast, I think, because there’s so much, so many ideas out there, so many channels to test, you know? Yeah. So and I think managers and CEOs are also pushing for motion, right? Like movement.
Bronson: We feel comfortable or busy, even if we’re not being productive. It’s a part of the human element, I think.
Bronson: Let’s dig into your your five piece here. So I’m going to tell the people with the five piece. Ah, and then we’ll kind of dig into each one. So you have purpose, plan, people, process and platform. And when I first saw these, I was I was kind of struck by them because this really sums it up. I mean, I was thinking at a high level about growth. And there’s a place for everything that kind of runs through my mind. And so I was excited to find this as I did research for this interview, because I’m going to start using this framework for my companies internally. So let’s start with purpose. When you say purpose, what do you mean by that?
Samir: So purpose, I mean a few things. I think one clear thing is making meaning right. All of us have so much opportunity these days. You know, all of us are well educated, you know, privileged. We can work with so many ideas. Right. And a lot of people a lot of times people get in starting a company or a startup for the wrong reasons. Right. You know, they don’t really, truly believe in it as much or their heart is really not. Not in it. Right. So I think making meaning. I think Geico is like you had a really good talk on YouTube about making meaning and like if you if you make meaning, you may make money, but if you don’t make any meaning, you’ll never make money. I think that that part is really important. So like I think why you’re doing it, the passion obsession of going about it because, you know, as you know, startups are hard, right? So having that in place is huge. I think the second big thing is having a clear goal, like a personal goal and a corporate goal. Right. So a lot of people start companies not knowing whether it’s going to be a small business that’s really profitable or it’s going to be a VC funded company. Right. Or it’s going to be a public company or it’s going to be in many. Right. So where you when you start your company, an idea, where are you fitting in? Right. Are you are you going towards any of those? Right. Because the math and the effort, input and output look very different, right? If you’re going to be doing a a profitable company, you know, that’s kind of a self run company, right, for yourself. Then you need to focus on profit first, right? If you’re running a weak company, you need to hit the metrics that VCs want. Right, or cut off the cash or not even invest. Right. So I think earlier planning on what is the purpose of why I’m doing this or why the company is doing it is important. So even among the founders, I think the next two things are, you know, stage, right? What you know, what is the stage you are at? How do you at idea traction are you had growth? How do you add hypergrowth right and establishing clear purpose around the you know, and some of the KPIs around that stage is also really important. And the last one is called, what I call it, the big, hairy, audacious goal bag that hierarchy is, you know, is going beyond you know, if you if you’re if you’re like, for example, Huber, Huber, Huber could have said we are an app company. Right. That connects drivers and riders. Right. But instead, every year on their website, they’re saying we’re revolutionizing transportation. Right. And we’re 1% of the way. Right. I mean, they’re freaking 99% of the way. Right. Compared to competition. But like establishing where you are and where you want to go. Right. Like that big mission and big vision. Yeah. Google also when they started off with this ad saying, hey, we want to organize the world’s information. Right. They didn’t say, we want to get you the top ten results. Right. Because now you get Google now and you know, all kinds of projects around information retrieval. Yeah. So so that I mean, so having a much bigger, broader vision.
Bronson: Yeah. It sounds like purpose is a lot of going into the future and then working backwards. Right. It’s going into the future of what you want, the goal of the company to be M&A, IPO, whatever, and then working backwards, it’s going into the future and deciding what you want to accomplish in the world. Is it ten results or is it organizing the world’s information and then working backwards? Is that kind of sound right?
Samir: Yeah. Yeah, because you wouldn’t think about it like when you launch rockets, if it’s even blind one degree or it will land on a different planet, you know? And that’s what that’s the kind of precision you need in planning. It won’t exactly work out the way you want, but at least you have to start with what you want, right?
Bronson: Yeah. No, absolutely. It’s the whole, you know, the old notion that plans fail, but but planning is indispensable because it’s just that it’s having something that you’re working toward. You’re more likely to get something close to what you want than if you really don’t know what the end result looks like.
Samir: Exactly. And I think I don’t I think the number one mistake is people just don’t spend enough time on this point. I think so. I want people to really think and work through some of these frameworks. And these are available at Harvard Business Review. You know how to do your veggie bag. There’s a lot of tools from good to great it.
Bronson: Jim Collins good to great I learned about the be.
Samir: There’s a resort says you could buy a used book and figure it out right you just I think people just need to spend time with themselves and their founders.
Bronson: Absolutely. And so the first piece is purpose. Have a purpose for yourself. Have a purpose for the business. The second piece is plan. So what kind of plan are we talking about here?
Samir: So I think that the like we talked about earlier, based on the gold and the stage of the company right now, that you know generally where you’re going, right? You should establish a solid analytics framework, right? So now we’re coming down to so we have this touchy feely, you know, grand vision type thing first. Right? But now we need to start measuring. Now, are we are we really going, you know, if you have a board, are you really at least going to the right country in the right direction? You may not land up on the exact shore, but at least you know, directionally. So now you’re setting up that high level directional compass. So if you’re a small business again, you want to be profitable as soon as possible because you know you’ll run out of money. If you’re a weak company, you need to figure it out. Got to see is that my prospectively fund you these days is we don’t just read stuff on the web like ask them what do you need for me to give me for you to give me $5 million? You know, what metrics do you and then you wire that in into analytic your analytics framework and then, you know, let the team lose on it. Right. And so having that.
Bronson: Everyone’s analytics different based on their purpose.
Samir: Exactly. So now we’re kind of going down into tactics. But I think the idea here would be and then again, the planning will differ based on if you had traction or growth or a hyper growth rate. Like, for example, if you are early stage startups, you’re just trying to get to the next stage, right? But if you are Uber or Airbnb, you’re in hyper growth phase and you need to put $1,000,000,000 to work. Right now, that planning is very different, but the same framework still applies, right?
Bronson: It’s still planning just it looks different when you’re done. What happens when people within a startup have different ideas of what they’re trying to accomplish? You know, let’s say they have different purposes. Let’s say they’re looking at different metrics and they’re getting excited about different goals being hit. What happens in a company like that?
Samir: I think it fizzles out. I would say it causes a lot of problems within founders. Right. And I would say this five BS in that way is therapeutic and it brings all the shit out upfront rather than either. Yeah, people start, people start thinking and all of them, all of us have expectations in our head, right? Even for our personal relationships that are never voiced. So it’s similar. You know, I think it’s going to be it’s going to be like the same thing, right? Like it will be the same board analogy I gave you, but it’ll be two or three people trying to row in different directions, even if they don’t have the anchor now. But they’re still.
Bronson: Not going anywhere.
Samir: Throwing at three different directions. So yeah, slightly different, but it’s still a race.
Bronson: Yeah, no, absolutely. Okay. So we have purpose and then we have our planning, which is figuring out what KPIs matter to get us to that purpose, to get us to that end goal. And then the third one, which might be my favorite one, is people, I mean, we all know that, you know, people are the most important asset of a company, at least that’s what we’re always told. But you break it down and you say a growth team needs different kinds of people. And I’m just going to read these off here you have the chief growth officer, you have the quads, you have the designer, you have the hacker, and you have the channel guru. Now, I love that list because I know why all those pieces are so important, but I’ve never seen it written that clearly, right? Like on our team here, we have a channel guru and I know his value, but I’ve never seen him. I put that on a list like this, you know what I mean? So you know of walk me through the people, walk me through the people involved, the way you see it, you know, kind of starting with the the chief growth officer.
Samir: Yeah. So I think that, you know, the number one person I see missing in a company is, you know, we have people responsible for, let’s say, technology, right? Chief Technical Officer We have responsible for finance a CFO. Right. But all of us are talking about how growth is so exciting and we need it. Everybody needs to do it. And, you know, it’s so important that’s going to make or break a company. But I don’t see one person who is responsible financially. And, you know, not that he comes to work just doing that. Right. So I think that’s what I see like a chief growth officer or you know, you see a lot more hiring on VP of growth and other things now. Right. But I think somebody who is entirely responsible for the running the group and most importantly runs the it’s like it runs growth, like a profit and loss center right, money coming in and money going out. I think the role of the CMO, CMO or VP of marketing is still a little bit nebulous. You know, they can get away with wasting money, but but for example, the chief growth officer would be really, really responsible and pin down financially.
Bronson: Right? I like that. I like that view of the world.
Samir: So yeah, I guess traditional VP of marketing, you know, they get away by saying, oh, we did this for brand, we’re just testing this. But when you when you give somebody a growth title, you know, they better grow that shit, right?
Bronson: That’s that’s exactly right. I love it.
Samir: That’s important. I think that’s the first important. Even psychologically. It’s important. Organizationally it’s important. I think the second part is having a client on the team and this is what I learned from my company that I started earlier called Search for US. We brought a lot of data science and statistics and mathematics to marketing, and we directly got it from Wall Street. Right. It’s kind of one of the biggest has one of the biggest hedge funds in the world. Right. And what I learned there is having somebody who has an understanding of mathematics and statistics. I think most people stop at Advanced Excel, right. Or Pivot tables. But there is there’s a lot of lot of value to having somebody who understands math and statistics and can can can work with chances and. Numbers rate in a more more rigorous way. Right. Because now data is coming in at much larger speeds than we had earlier. Right. And you could use much more information. You can use much you can derive much more actionable data from from all of these sources. Right. So having a one go on is important. I think the third person is having a hacker. Right. Because marketing could have so many ideas. Right. They have ideas all the time. But unless you call it up and push it out there like it doesn’t exist. Right. So you need a computer scientist, a coder who can get stuff out quickly for marketing. And then I think, as you mentioned, as depending on your purpose and plan, when you do your planning, you have you will have some hypotheses around what channels you want to go after. So those initial channel groups could be some channels you’ve already tested for statistical significance. For example, if AdWords already works for you, right, or Facebook ads already works for you, you know, up to a good degree, then you could get that channel guru there, right? Because as you know. Right, every new all these big companies like Airbnb, Uber, Tinder, you know, all of them have been built based on platforms that didn’t exist before. Right. They’re being built on the phone or Facebook. Right. Or taking in Tinder’s case, taking advantage of the swipe. So the channel guru, a company, needs to be on top of each platform and a channel, and these people are super critical to fill in those gaps. Of course, you you’ll get a lot more expertize. Right. But but but so that’s why it’s important, because the the weapons of distribution of weapons of mass distribution is just kind of who know because each channel is getting really deep and wide now. Right. So you need that expert.
Bronson: In the big world. It’s insane how many channels there are to go after.
Samir: Yeah. Yeah. And then I think the the last two, you know, a designer, right. As you know, like now because, you know, we have used Apple and, you know, Tesla and all these companies. Now we’re used to you and we’re expecting, you know, very high quality of user experience and empathy and stuff that works fast, easy, you know. So user experience is a critical part of the growth rate. So once you get in the user and once they’re in your product, UX is such a critical piece to keep, you know, to convert them and keep them coming back and even referring you right up. So is that I know, super important. The last one, which is actually the most important one, is the hustler. Right. You know, the person who sees the gold on top of the mountain. Right. Is is that person really, really has a strategic understanding, a competitive understanding of the business and also has this, you know, energy to keep driving the rest of the team. Right. And suggest shortcuts. Right. Not long. It’s like there’s gold on top of the mountain that’s not freaking crawl. Do it or walk. Do it. Let’s take a helicopter race and you get the team to build the helicopter instead of, you know, walking their friend. Yeah. So so I think the hustler mentality is important. And again, I think it doesn’t have to be all of these people. I think what I’m trying to get across is all these attributes of people. Yeah, right. All these qualities of people. And it could be there could be multiple in one person.
Bronson: Absolutely. You know, it’s interesting that, you know, you say this is a growth team. I think you’ve also just defined what a startup team needs. I mean, these are I mean, I can’t think of, you know, missing pieces. I mean, this is what it takes to get a startup off the ground is the same kind of roster. So I would just encourage people to even think bigger about those roles because I think those are some really important roles you just laid out. And again, you you mentioned some like get missed, you know, the hustler, you know, the channel guru, like the quads. I agree with you. I think they’re, you know, of the utmost importance, but they may not get as much press out as, you know, the hacker or the designer or that kind of thing. So I like that, too. So so the piece of our purpose plan, people, the fourth piece process. What do you mean by process? Process of what?
Samir: So this, you know, processes by process, I mean the process of dealing with uncertainty and taking advantage of certainty. Right. So one example I’ll give you everywhere. For example, Uber launches, right? They have this massive supply and demand problem. Right? Sometimes there’s a lot more drivers. Sometimes there’s a lot more passengers. And every country has a unique customer behavior. Right. So even though they have so much money and so many resources, they run into, you know, all sorts of issues. Right. In every new market that they launch. So for that to do deal with. That kind of uncertainty. Plus also deal with uncertainty around what channels might work. Right. Most of us don’t know what channel is going to be our biggest channel, right. As a startup. Like is it AdWords and Facebook ads to date with your blog? Should I do podcast things or two? Inbound marketing, you know, it’s so confusing. So that’s what I call that is risk. You don’t know how to go about it in the least. You’re not spending the least money in the least time rate. So how do you do that? So if you do it randomly, you’re going to waste a lot of time and money, right? So the process that I talk about is bringing a scientific method, and this is what we, most of us learned in high school is, you know, when we go to the lab, like we just don’t start mixing shit, right. And, you know, in the beaker. Yeah. And we, what we do is we plan some things that, for example, we say, okay, the purpose of my experiment is to figure it out, you know, something, right? So in a clear way. So in our case we would be like my initial purpose would be to see if Snapchat works for me. Let’s say that could be the purpose and the research. You do research a lot of research around it saying, hey, all these other brands are using Snapchat. You know, they’re getting this much conversion rate. You know, this is their CPA. You know, this is our case study. This is what to do, what not to do. And then you come down to hypotheses. Then you say, okay, if we spend $3,000 or three months, I know I can get, you know, X number of video views or, you know, X number of conversions, right? And then you come down to running experiments. You say, okay, over the next 90 days, I’m going to run experiments to prove or disprove the hypothesis. Right? And once you start collecting data because, you know, in the plan part, we laid out all the all the GPA is right. And we have a solid analytics framework. Now, we can do analysis on all these experiments. Right? How did they go? What happened? Is the data statistically significant to conclude whether it is Snapchat works or not or Facebook ads or Google AdWords or this landing page works or not, you know, anything that you experiment with it, work or not, and then you draw conclusions and you know, you basically turn that into a repeatable process. So, so summary, what I mean is bringing a more scientific base and scientific analysis to, to running your growth. Yeah. So this would be for testing your landing bay. This could be removing the login requirement, right? This could be testing new colors on your web page or your tabs. Right? It could be anything. But the idea would be to dump it into a process. Right? Just work like scientist works and space engineers work with that level of precision and process and not just randomly do things.
Bronson: Absolutely. And you think about the success that science has given us, you know, the scientific method. There’s something to it. There’s something about those steps that really lead to truth in so many ways. And so why exactly use that in our, you know, in our in our current situation make sense?
Samir: Yeah. Yeah, because I think marketing has been pretty irresponsible so far.
Bronson: It’s been very unscientific. Unscientific, yes.
Samir: I see the value of creativity and intuition as well. And that can go into generating the ideas for these experiments. Right. But they need to be validated by real data.
Bronson: Absolutely. And then the day they’re making money or making art. You can’t always do both.
Samir: Yeah, exactly.
Bronson: And then your last piece is platform. And by this, you know, you mentioned it earlier, you call them, you know, weapons of mass distribution. You know, there’s all these platforms that allow us to instantly get in touch with thousands or millions of potential customers. Um, what does this PE look like? How does a startup master the platforms? What should be their angle? Their.
Samir: Yeah. Yeah. So let me introduce platforms by platforms. What I mean is, you know, in marketing technology, right? If you look at the looming shape of marketing technology, you’ll see like billions of companies. Right? So how do you organize that? So the way I think about it is. Or what is the value of it? The value of it is that it brings skill. It brings even with a small amount of people. For example, if you have a company like my last company called Search Force, you could automatically bid through millions of keywords, right? And you need one person on the team and suddenly you’re managing hundreds of thousands of keywords. Right? And the software is bidding based on the returns. Right. So that can that can reduce your time significantly. Right. Tools like outreach, dot IO, right, that automate like email sending and you know, sending repeated messages and measuring it or like autopilot, which does, you know, customer journey automation, right? All these tools and platforms can help you save a lot of time and money. And I think the last thing is, gives you a lot of competitive advantage because there are a lot of these are very analytically based. So it gives you, as you know, the auctions are getting pretty crazy, right? Facebook ads, Google ads. I mean, it’s like ridiculous bid price. So to compete with that kind of environment, you need sophisticated tools and platforms, right? Yeah. I think that’s that’s the key important part of it. And the way I think about it is there’s so many right to sort through and that’s the big chat. And the way I like to sort it through is by Dave McClure’s, by it’s for metrics. I’m sorry. Yeah, yeah. Bye bye.
Bronson: Yeah. Fire. There you go.
Samir: So you could start with acquisition, activation and retention, revenue and referral. So the way you can think about this whole growth, I call it the growth stack is from all these marketing technologies. You pick the ones like for example, when you do your process right and you realize that something’s getting chopped in the retention rate, I’m not able to retain people good enough or, you know, I have great acquisition activities and retention, but I’m not turning into money, right? Or I don’t have enough referrals. Right. So you’ll run into bottlenecks along this funnel, right? Anywhere, somewhere. And then you would say, okay, now I need more people for activation or, you know, acquisition. And then you go out and look for the best platforms and tools that enable you to do that. So I would say not go crazy on trying to experiment with everything, but figure out where you have a bottleneck and then go out and fit the right technology.
Bronson: Absolutely. And you said, you know, this is a competitive advantage. And I agree, there’s so many new ones popping up. There’s so many new platforms that do so many clever things that like search for Stack. If you didn’t know about it, you would be at a disadvantage. If that was a whole you were trying to plug in your business. How do you stay abreast of all this knowledge? Like how does someone, you know, I mean, is going to do searches like, well, do you have any tips on how to stay on top of all this?
Samir: Oh, boy. It’s super fast moving. It’s hard for me even to be on top of it. Yeah, I wish. I mean, I guess you guys have a great community growth hacker team as well. So I think joining growth hackers dot com or you know, growth hacker TV would be a great thing because I think that gets all the minds together in one community and be able to discuss these right and see what kind of a problem you have. I think the other way is also if you’re a startup, join an accelerator, right. I, you know, I mentor at Techstars as well as founded startups and it’s an awesome resource. We have this internal tool called Dashboard. We can post anything we want on it and very quickly you’ll get real time inputs. So those are the few ways you could keep on, keep in touch with it.
Bronson: I agree. You’ve got to tap into a community. Yeah, the shared intelligence is there. Trying to do it on your own is very difficult. Well, Samir, this has been amazing. I mean, I feel like this is a real framework for a growth stack, as you call it. You know, just to kind of summarize here, you know, purpose, what are you what is the goal for your company? What is the goal for you personally? Plan what KPIs should we measure to get us to that goal? What’s a real plan to get there? People who do I need around the office table to actually pull this off and make sure I have enough of the right people process? Let’s get scientific about it. Let’s use the scientific method, let’s be rigorous and then platform. Let’s not just go grab any tool, but let’s grab the tools that really make sense for the holes in our business. As we think about our growth stack, I feel like if people really think about the purpose planned people process and platform that. They’re going to feel more in control about their own growth. They’re going to feel less confused. They’re just going to have a direction that they didn’t have before. Not that it’s going to be easy, but that it’s going to be understandable now if they really work through this. Growth is never easy, but it’s doable, right?
Samir: Yeah, yeah. It’s completely doable. And yeah, no, I think that is you summarize it really well. And I think the last thing I just want to say is like just more about the framework, how you can use it is, you know, I think it’s a very coherent strategic planning tool. You could use it as that. The other one is a gap analysis tool, right? Like you said, like where am I and where do I need to go? And then you figured out the gap, right? This will help you figure out what is the missing pieces, right? I think the third third tool is more of risk management. Right. As you know, most startups will fail. Right. You know, and very small chance of success, especially to make it really big. So what you are doing with this tool is you’re reducing the risk. Right. And I think, as you said, gaining more control over what’s happening. Right. And I think the last thing is just that all the pipes are super well connected to each other. So, you know, if you just try to, let’s say, start an awesome process, you know, but if you don’t have a plan to suck, you have the wrong people. You know, everything is a waste, right? Yeah, you could, you know, so. Yeah. And you could have an awesome plan, but without a clear purpose, you’re not going to be able to sustain the team longer term. Right. So it’s kind of I think it’s important. I want to highlight for the for the people is all of these are interrelated and, you know, not think of them as a linear flow, but it’s kind of what all of them work into each other and help each other. Absolutely.
Bronson: And that’s one of the reasons I like this, because, you know, a framework come out, you know, every day. I mean, everyone has a framework for everything. But but a lot of them, they’re not as coherent. This one really hangs together. And it’s one of the things I liked about it. It feels very it covers a lot of ground and it hangs together. So I like to end every interview by asking these two questions that they’re kind of fun questions, you know, to end with. First one is, what are you working on as soon as we’re done with this interview, whether it’s really boring or really exciting. Walking the dog, running a meeting. What are you doing?
Samir: I am sitting and meditating for an hour.
Bronson: That sounds awesome because my.
Samir: Yeah, yeah. And then this all this good stuff is awesome, but there’s a lot of working. It works the mind a lot and I think it needs to relax to do have the creative, creative energy flowing. So I’m sitting John out.
Bronson: That’s a huge insight right there. The time off makes the time on more powerful. And then the last question is what’s the best advice you have for any startup that’s trying to grow?
Samir: I think the the the best advice I have is I think one one of his is definitely, you know, filing the five fees because I think, as you say, a lot of founder issues and all those things will be resolved like all issues. So you’re still going? Well, I think two things. One. It is knowing what kind of a business you want to build, right? Not just, oh, I have a great idea. Let me just do something. So having the end in sight, I think, as you said, and planning backwards, I’ve seen missing a huge lag. I think the second big thing is a lot of founders or founding teams don’t like they don’t like losing control. So delegating and I think having the right people and outsourcing to the right people when it makes sense and establishing your quality standards but still having their people involved. I think it’s a big thing. Yeah. And I think the third, third biggest part is just that, you know, startups are not easy. You have to, you know, don’t get seduced by seeing Larry and Sergey on, you know, the cover of Playboy. You know, like it’s tough board, but it’s a lot of fun and it’s a lot of learning as well. So, so yeah, just be ready for it and you know, just keep working and do it works.
Bronson: So absolutely. I love it. Well, Samir, this is awesome. I know I’m inspired. I know I’m educated. I know that I’m getting a ton out of our time together today. So I know other people will as well. So again, thank you for coming on Growth Hacker TV.
Samir: Sounds good. Good luck to everybody.