Episodes

Jaspar Weir

Jaspar Weir

Jaspar Weir is co-founder and president of TaskUs, the leading provider of customer care and back-office outsourcing to evolving businesses around the world. Jaspar was awarded the 2017 EY Entrepreneur of the Year Award and recently launched his podcast, CXYZ.

Jaspar gives us a behind the scenes look at how to build an outsourced marketing empire, like the one he uses to generate $13M a year in revenue.

TOPIC JASPER COVERS

  • What the TaskUs do
  • How does he identify the best customer
  • What kind of growth does he have after the pivot
  • How to build an outsourced marketing empire
  • The company revenue is about 13 million
  • How important to find a profitable niche within the outsourcing
  • What are the primary things he done to grow
  • What does he do when it comes to leading research
  • And a whole lot more

LINKS & RESOURCES

WATCH THE INTERVIEW

READ THE TRANSCRIPTION

Bronson: Welcome to another episode of Growth Hacker TV. I’m Bronson Taylor and today I have Jasper Weir with us. Jasper, thanks for coming on the program.

Jaspar: Thanks for having me, Bronson.

Bronson: Yeah, absolutely. Now, Jasper, you are the co-founder and president at Task US Seacom, Back Office Support and Customer Care, a company where you have many of the Internet’s hottest brands as customers. I’m on your side. I’m looking at the logos you have Hoteltonight, Tinder, Groupon, Whisper. So let’s get into it. Let’s talk about Task US. I’m guessing I know what you guys do based on the name, and I’m guessing other people do as well to ask us. But I want to hear your words. What is your company actually do?

Jaspar: Yeah, sure. So a lot of people think we’re like a task company because of the name. Right. Is more like, oh, it’s like TaskRabbit. That’s what we get all the time. But it’s not really. We started in the virtual assistant space where we actually help people do one task at a time. Busy professionals. Mm hmm. We moved, our model switched. It really made a pivot into more of the enterprise play where we now help companies like the ones you just mentioned to SAP, customer service teams, content, moderation teams, any sort of operational function in a business, we can set up teams of people in the Philippines right now where we’re primarily, primarily located to fulfill those operational functions and allow our customers to stay focused on what’s core.

Bronson: Okay. So is it fair to say that behind the scenes of any business, there’s a lot of boring, repetitive tasks that are super necessary. And that’s what you guys do.

Jaspar: Exactly. Exactly. And by taking away some of those boring, repetitive tasks, these companies, these startups, the technology companies can focus on product and innovation and know there’s a partner that not only can do these sorts of functions, but do them really well. Because we’ve seen at this point so many different types of companies, especially at this kind of hypergrowth stage.

Bronson: You probably know what they need even better than they do sometimes because you’ve done it.

Jaspar: Often times people come in thinking they need one thing. And of course, they. Turns out they need something else. Yeah.

Bronson: So down at the pivot for a second, you started with kind of helping busy professionals was the pivot because you just couldn’t get any traction or because you didn’t like that set of clients or the market wasn’t big enough. Like, what was the reason? Reason? All right, this isn’t working. Let’s try Enterprise.

Jaspar: So I think I think my co-founder, Bryce and I, I think our parents were a little bit upset that we were continuing to live at home. So I think that was true and we personally weren’t too stoked on the idea of continuing to make Xero money. So it came from that we had a couple years really trying out this virtual assistant model, kind of like our Tim Ferriss is for our work. We thought that was going to be the big thing. And then so we’re doing these tasks for like three hour tasks, five hour tasks, earning $30 or $50 per task. And we were kind of quarterbacking these tasks ourselves and project managing. And so the economics just didn’t make sense. And we got our first like kind of enterprise client through a good relationship. And he was like, Hey, can you have 100 people do transcription for you? Can you have these people up in a month? And we’re like, Yeah, sure. And so once we had that, we’re like, Oh my God, it’s way easier to just have big programs, a hundred people doing the same exact task around the clock than it is for individual tasks here and there. So I was that was the real pivot. But I mean, it really came from just wanting to make money because we went we’re doing that now.

Bronson: That’s also and there’s such a good insight there, which is you found the one customer that you liked and then decided to have more of those. And I think that a lot of companies, it seems obvious once you hear people listening, this will be like, yeah, that’s obvious advice. But they really think for a second, Are you doing it in your own company? Have you identified the best customer? And then try to replicate that because that alone can unlock crazy growth potential, right?

Jaspar: That’s right.

Bronson: No, that’s awesome. So what kind of growth have you had after the pivot? You know, you’ve been going at this this new direction. How long you’ve been going in new direction and what kind of growth have you had there?

Jaspar: Yeah, so when we started the company six years ago, so we’ve been in the new direction. I mean, roughly for four and a half years, we’ve grown more or less at 100% each year. We last year were the number 211, 211 fastest growing company, according to a magazine last.

Bronson: In 500.

Jaspar: 509. And and we actually last year was our slowest growth year at 65%. But we are already back on track for over 100% growth this year. We’ll do probably about 13 million in revenue.

Bronson: That’s great. So how much money did you guys raise to kind of get this engine going that now is doing 13 million a year?

Jaspar: So we didn’t raise any money and raised any money. We didn’t. We didn’t. I mean, when we started the business, we were 22 years old and I didn’t even know what venture capital was that. I mean, I would have if it was if I thought it was an option, but it wasn’t. So we took about $25,000 that my co-founder and I had saved up from a business we ran during college. And we used that to kind of start task us. So still to this day, no money has been raised.

Bronson: Yeah. Is there any nuggets of wisdom there? Because, I mean, bootstrapping to that level is rare. I mean, bootstrapping to, you know, 50 K, 100 K, a million maybe. You know, you’re kind of business. It happens. That’s the four hour workweek, you know, thing that people are doing. You get some product that doesn’t really have a long shelf life. You give it you can out of it, you know. But to get where you guys are at, it’s kind of rare. Any words of wisdom there? I mean, to do this or don’t do that.

Jaspar: Sure. So I’d say two things really made that possible. Mm hmm. One is that we are a service company. Although we dress it up like a tech business. At the end of the day, it’s service. So that’s actually the primary reason we’ve been able to experience this type of growth. It’s we go out, we get new clients, we hire staff for it. It’s not a very capital intensive business when compared to, like, building technology. We don’t we don’t have to hire expensive engineers. Now we’re getting to a point where we’re building out more offices and it costs a lot of money in capital expenditures to do so. However, at the start, I’d say what made it possible was one, we didn’t have to build technology. And two was that honestly, we had zero costs to our parents. We’re lucky enough to. I mean, at Fortune, we’re fortunate enough to be able to live at home. That was our seed funding was like not being able to pay ourselves $0 in salary and just pump everything back into the business. Yeah, but it was it was a grind. I mean, if you’re really trying to bootstrap a business and you don’t have money to start with, like, personally, we didn’t have any money out of college. It was a real grind for a couple of years. And looking back, I’m like, I don’t even know how we did that.

Bronson: Yeah, no, it’s so counterintuitive because usually when I think of services businesses, I think of there’s a low ceiling that it’s hard to really grow a services business. But you’re telling me there’s a flipside, which is there’s some positives to it, which is you don’t need expenses until you have clients because you didn’t build out all this infrastructure in the hopes you could sell it. You sold it when somebody would write you a check which changes the game financially and allows you to bootstrap because it’s based on cash flow, right?

Jaspar: Exactly. Yeah. It’s a cash flow business. It’s kind of like you can set up in one day and it’s like, okay, all of a sudden we’re a service business. Here’s a service that we offer. And as soon as you have someone that pays you, you go turn around and you figure out a way to deliver the service.

Bronson: Yeah, no, that’s good. I mean, that’s that’s a great little insight right there. Now, it seems like with outsourcing and kind of back office stuff to me at least, and I’m not in that market, but it seems like it’s a crowded market. There’s a lot of players going to the Philippines and getting something for you, going to these countries and doing something for you. How important was it for you guys to kind of find a profitable niche within outsourcing? Because it seems like your niche is high quality outsourcing or highly managed outsourcing. How important was that niche for you guys?

Jaspar: Sure. That’s right. And you know, last time I checked recently, I heard a number. There’s over 4000 companies that do what we do. So it’s a hyper competitive space. So finding a niche within that is the only reason we’re in business. And for us, it came from personal interest. I believe that as an entrepreneur, your business is kind of just an extension of who you are. And so it’s kind of we kind of self-selected our own clients. We said, look, we love startups. We had identified as startup founders. We said, How can we help the companies that inspire us? We want to work with those kind of companies. If we can’t start one ourselves, let’s service them. And so that’s really where it started. And it came out of a passion of the kind of companies that we personally, my co-founder, I liked. We’ve continued on in that space and continue to define a niche in this kind of booming e-commerce consumer web space, helping venture backed companies do the things they don’t want to do. Now, that’s been really, really important to us while focusing on our model, which is high quality, high quality and fully managed. But there’s other companies that can claim that they’re high quality, fully managed, but no one else can claim or show the type of knowledge about startups and the type of experience that now we have gained working with different types of startups and hypergrowth companies. We’ve seen it all and we are built for that kind of growth. And that’s really how Taskforce has distinguished itself from.

Bronson: Yes, he’s hands down on two axes, so units down on the we’re not just outsourcing a back office, it’s high quality, it’s highly managed. But then you also niche down on who you want, our customers, you wanted hydro startups. So now when people come to your site, they say, okay, it’s it’s high touch and here’s their clients. They’re companies that I want to be like. There’s a lot of appeal there that makes you stand out from those 4000 plus. And I think that’s a great point, is that if you’re going to compete, you know, there’s red ocean strategy and there’s blue ocean strategy. You can have, you know. Into a red ocean where there’s blood everywhere and there’s a ton of competitors. If you know how to choose the right axes to miss down on or you can go blue ocean if you’re, you know, truly innovative. But if you can go Red Ocean, you need to have something. Or a few somethings that are quite different.

Jaspar: Right.

Bronson: That’s right. That’s awesome. All right. So at the end of the day, you know, you’ve grown this business. What are the primary things you’ve done to grow it? Because I kind of think of marketing as kind of 80, 20 apps and stuff you do. Doesn’t really matter. You need to try it to cycle through it, but it didn’t really move the needle. And there is a small subset of stuff that without that, your company would have failed. So tell me, what are some of the things that just absolutely essential and then what are some of the things that you cycled through that seem like great ideas that just they really didn’t help at all?

Jaspar: Sure. You know, for us, it comes down to doing sales in the early days ourselves. And we still my co-founder and I still do a lot of sales ourself. I mean, I think for our business model, we have really high contract values. And because we’re a service business, we’re very high touch and we’re a company that focuses on customer intimacy. So what we realized from early days was that, hey, people are not just doing business with us, they’re doing business with us. And I truly believe that if you’re going to be selling in that kind of environment, you have to sell the people that you genuinely like. If you can go out and sell with people that you genuinely like and work on building real friendships and genuine connections, it’s going to be a lot easier than going just to just kind of banging on doors. You go to the people that are part that. You’re part, you know, the companies that you’re passionate about, people that are naturally drawn to you. I truly believe if you do that and you try to create genuine connections. Tony Shea talks about this in his book, Create Genuine Connections, and after three years, they pay off. And it’s true. If you have to go out, build your network, go to the companies you like and you’ll and you’ll find people you played with and you find people you don’t. I think it’s about really continuing to build your network, and for us, doing sales ourselves from the early days should get the ball rolling right and have that first those first sources of revenue and then you need to learn how to sell because that’s the only way that you can scale self esteem. So even if you’re doing a totally different product and tasks, that’s, you know, a staff company with recurring revenue. I believe it’s important as a founder to get in there and know your sales process in and out, otherwise you won’t be able to scale it. And a lot of entrepreneurs don’t do that.

Bronson: You know, that was exactly where I was going next was when you tell me you’re at 13 million revenue, then my mind automatically assumes Jasper’s a salesman. Because you have to start with the founders having some salesmanship to get anywhere like that in the future. And a lot of companies, they have a lot of promise, but they don’t have a salesman at their core. And people think, you know, will sales, how important is it? It’s all about technology. It’s all about branding. Look, those things matter if you don’t have a salesman on the team, good luck. I mean, you need somebody that knows how to go and pitch something because that will work its way into everything. It’ll work its way into the copywriting, into the phone calls, into the emails, into the networking events, into the way you hold yourself and the way you do it. Just being a salesman works its way into everything. So I’m glad you brought that point. Now the look on your site, we mentioned some of those big name companies that you know you have as customers, you know, the Groupon, the tender, that kind of stuff. Do those companies come to you or do you say, no, I want that, I’m going to them? How does that work?

Jaspar: You know, it’s mostly us going out to them. We are getting more and more inbound as well as we’ve grown our reputation. And again, like going back to those genuine connections we found in the early days, we weren’t we made genuine connections with people that would be champions for our business, people that were heavily invested in the startup community and just really liked us and like our business and refer people to us. So we did get some of those clients through referrals and other ones. We got by just saying, Hey, we are paying attention to this space. We’ve got our fingers on the pulse. When we see a company that’s exploding, someone like a whisper or a tender, we got to reach out to them. So in some of those cases, it came from previous relationships. In some cases, it’s just kind of knowing like Hoteltonight, we’re like, Hey, this is a company that is going to explode. Three years ago when we started to work with them and we just kind of said, we don’t even know what we can do for them. Let’s just get in contact with them and then figure it out. Yeah, right. And so sometimes we’ve kind of developed that sixth sense where it’s like we just, I mean, it’s not always right, but we try to have conversations with companies before they really take off and again. So a lot of it is kind of outbound figuring out who is our ideal client, who is at the center of the eye and really making all of our effort about reaching those people that are that the target, the real center.

Bronson: That is such a tactic right there of looking at who might blow up and going after them. Because once they’re on, you know, Hacker News and TechCrunch, yeah, you and 50 other salesmen are going after them because everybody wants a piece of that pie now. But if you’re the one building trust before you know the mob, you have a real chance of closing some. Kind of deal. I mean, that right there is worth its weight in gold is to think like that. Now, let’s look at the other side of the coin. Talked about your guys growth and how you guys, you know, have kind of done things. Let’s talk about the companies that use you because I think there’s also some growth principles there. Do you feel like that companies are held back because they don’t outsource? It’s all you know, it’s an ongoing discussion. But do you think that outsourcing actually unlocks growth or is that the wrong way to think about it?

Jaspar: No, I think that’s a good way to think about it. Right. There’s always going to be a case whether or not to outsource. But oftentimes, again, the most limited resource I believe in a startup, it’s brainpower. It’s focus. Right. And so you’ve got to truly think about and be real with yourself about, hey, what is core and what’s not. So what we see a lot as a pushback for using task us, let’s say for customer service, right? A lot of companies will say, oh, customer service. We would never outsource that because it’s core to our business. Now, I question that for a company like Zappos, it’s core to their business. For a lot of other companies, it’s not core. It’s the it’s the right thing to say. And of course, you care about customer service and want to deliver an amazing customer experience. But that’s not the core of your business. The core your business is your technology or the things that you sell online. If you’re an e-commerce company, customer service has to be great, but it’s not core. So by taking a function that customer service or content moderation, if you’re a company like Whisper, if you have to spend management resources and brainpower and focus trying to figure out how to run a customer service call center, for example, that is time and energy in an area that’s not going to really affect whether your business makes it or breaks it. That focus needs to be on what is really core to that business, whether it’s building out your social network, the marketplace, the products you’re selling. But I think, again, it’s all about focusing and becoming laser focused on the one thing you do best and bring in partners to do the rest.

Bronson: Yeah. And so when companies try to think through it themselves, okay, what should we outsource? What should we not outsource? You know, this idea of core keeps coming up. Is is a core your business is a core to, you know, how do we define core as core defined by if you fail at this, your company fails, that means it’s core. Or is there some other litmus test? How do you see that?

Jaspar: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s one good way to do it. I think CORE really is what is your dominant value proposition or unique value prop? What is the one thing that’s going to differentiate you from all of your competitors? Right. People, investors, anybody will ask you, you know, oh, well, why are you guys different? Whatever that the answer to that question is, that’s that’s your core and that’s what I focus on.

Bronson: Okay. So calling Zappos, what makes them different is their customer support. And that actually is a competitive advantage. They write books about it. I mean, it is the thing they do where other companies, it’s good to have it and it’s good to be good at it, but it is not the reason they’re going to fail. That’s kind of awesome.

Jaspar: Right. Exactly. And you know, Zappos and Tony Shays is a great author and great entrepreneur. But that kind of model has, I think, caused a lot of people to think customer service is core and really it’s not. You look at Zappos, I mean, it’s like, yes, they had a good exit, but they don’t operate very profitably. And a lot of that is because you can call customer service and complain about your flat hire for an hour if you want to do that. Like, yeah, that’s great. But that doesn’t work for everybody.

Bronson: No, absolutely. It’s good to kind of hear the other side of that coin. So one of the I was looking at your site, it looks like one of the things you guys do for people is lead research. And I’m kind of interested in that because anything related to marketing that is somehow automated or outsourced is going to be very appealing to this audience because that’s the kind of stuff they’re looking for. What do you do when it comes to lead research? What does that look like when a company comes to you? They say, we need to lead research and you say we got people and here’s what they do. Walk me through that.

Jaspar: Well, let me explain how we came about to offer this service. Great. And that’s through our own efforts. Right? So we eat our own docs. And so a few years ago, we’re still growing the business. And we finally hired our first real live salesperson. Right. And he was he was really our first employee in the office. So he was in our office. And we thought I thought our sales guy is going to come in. He’s going to be crushing on the phone all day. He’s making cold calls for his business and he’s in the office and he’s not on the phone ever. And I’m like, What’s going on right now? It’s like, Well, I’ve got to do all this research. I’ve got to find companies for us to go after and find their contact info. And I said, and we had a couple hundred people in the Philippines at the time and I said, Well, you know, we’ve got all these people in Philippines, why don’t you use a couple and have them do the research for you and get a couple of, you know, gather all the contact info and he’s like, Oh, okay, we’ll give that a try. So we’re trying to team in the Philippines they started with and we tell them, here are the companies we want you to go after and then they go out and find the contact info. Now next and we said, okay, now sales guy, why are you still not on the phones, right? You’re getting your numbers. I still barely ever hear you on the phone. And his his answer was like, well, I’ve got the. Contact info, but I got to go read TechCrunch and find like different companies and why I should go after them and really do the research and identify the companies first. I was like, All right, well, we’ve got the best team in the Philippines now getting all the contact info. You think maybe they’d know how to identify a good company or not? It’s been a few months of them doing this. And so we said, All right, well, let’s give it a try. So now this team in the Philippines, in the Philippines reads the articles. They identify the good companies for us to go after, and then they get all the contact information right. And then step three was we said, okay, well, you know, call me crazy. Like, what if we have a team, try to send up emails on their own, right? And so and so that actually was, was, was something that the whole team was like, I don’t know, like, you know, we’re American. Like, these these emails are super customized. There’s no way someone in the Philippines would be able to do this. But we looked at kind of the emails we’re sending, and they’re all basically more or less the same. There’s little levels of customization, but we did what Tasca says best, which was take a seemingly complex process and break it down into its component parts. We did that and the team in the Philippines still today now sends out a bunch of these emails and that’s how we create a lot of our intro calls and the kind of leads are actually being generated from the Philippines. Yeah. So it’s a really long winded story session which, which is, you know, what does this lead research mean?

Bronson: Yeah, we.

Jaspar: Found two really. And I want to give full, full kind of warning here that that process is hard to do and it requires a lot of investment if you’re going to outsource your lead gen like that requires a ton of investment and training and having really good people. Now what we do for companies is we’ll help them with part of that process. So we’ll help them with the lead research part. So certain companies will use us and we’ve got big teams built out and we’ll be going after, let’s say there’s a company that ticketing space that we work with. We work on finding all different sorts of events for them. And so we’re given that and we break it up into different regions and we look, we break it up into categories and we’re constantly we got 25 people that are constantly researching events, finding out different information about the events, and that kind of goes into their system and generates leads for their sales team.

Bronson: That’s awesome. I’m glad you went into that story because it’s such an awesome story about how to really make a task binary, how to break down something that’s very first world complex, high touch and make it. No, it’s just a bunch of, you know, small, discrete tasks that can be carried out if you build the system out. And if you think about marketing that way with everything, now you’re on the road to becoming a growth hacker. When you really see that these really complex tasks can be broken down, automated, outsourced, you can find ways to become super efficient. It seems like, you know, when I look at your site and it’s all lead research, I’m like, All right, that appeals to me. Like something about I’m drawn to it because I feel like if I pay for lead research, I’m going to make money back on that more than I spend. It’s not hard to connect the dots whether you’re bootstrapped or have VC money. My cash flow is not going to take a big hit if it’s done well. Do you think that’s a good kind of strategy? Put out services. Put out products where it’s obvious they’ll make money from it, and then there’s always going be a market for you.

Jaspar: Look, if you can surely show your ROI. Absolutely right. Like that’s the easiest sale to do. If you show people like, hey, you buy this service, here are the results you get. It’s a no brainer, right? The challenge is, can you truly deliver that value? And if you can, you got that billion dollar business, right? Just throw more fuel on the fire and keep selling that. But it’s I think the real challenge there is if you’re offering or kind of promising revenue creation, you better be able to back it up because if not, that’s what say it’s great because you can see right away, hey, this is actually converting and if it’s not, you’re going to lose your clients.

Bronson: You know, one thing I love about your story is that, you know, like you said, it was dog food. You ate it first before selling it to other people because it’s easy to say, oh, I can promise you revenue. Then my question to those companies is, why aren’t you doing it internally to make money? Because you’re broke right now. So it’s like if you’re if this is so good, why are you so broke? And the dots don’t connect. But when I see a company that’s using their own internal thing and then found a market for it, it’s like, okay, that’s a believable story. Let’s give it a shot.

Jaspar: Right? Right. And that’s why a lot of those that’s why there’s really not many companies that exist like that, because if it truly was the case, you could just do it for yourself.

Bronson: Exactly. If you you know, the Internet marketers, you know, we have the answer, then why are you spending your free time trying to sell it to me like you got to just do it?

Jaspar: Exactly. Exactly. It’s the same team. You know, we don’t really do like outbound sales. It’s difficult to do in the Philippines, but it’s a big industry. And then people ask me for referrals all the time and I tell them like, look, ultimately there’s no outsource company that does sales really well because if there was, they just sell their own products and not be selling the service of sales.

Bronson: Yeah. No, absolutely. That’s a that’s a great insight. All right. So besides kind of lead research, do you guys tackle in the other sort of market? Unrelated things. I’m just wondering, I didn’t see him listed on the site, but, you know, I thought maybe behind the scenes there’s other cool services like that that people might like.

Jaspar: Sure. So, yeah, absolutely. We’ve done a lot and kind of growth hacking to build out certain sorts of marketplaces. So within a marketplace, you’re either going to be supply constrained or demand constrained. And so there’s got a number of instances in which we have artificially lubricated a marketplace by seeding it. And actually, for example, we’ve done that. There’s there’s a couple different clients we’ve worked with that have marketplaces for local home services. I need a plumber, I need an electrician. I go to the site, I put in my problem and you get a bid, right? I’m sure you can think of a few companies like this. Now, we work with a company in the space to actually go out and build out the network of suppliers. So, for example, here’s a nice little hack. A customer comes in and says, for example, I’ve got an I’ve got an overflowing toilets in Los Angeles. That’s my problem. Boom. We use that as an opportunity to acquire suppliers. So we’ll call and we’ve done these calls in the Philippines. We call suppliers in the area and say, Hey, you, I know you’re a plumber. I saw you on Yelp. I have a potential job for you. Can I walk you through this company I’m calling from and show you how to bid on this job so you.

Bronson: Have a lead for them. You got something to dangle so they’ll actually come and go through this signup process, right?

Jaspar: And that’s the way that we created a liquidity in the marketplace by making sure that when there was a consumer request, it was going to be fulfilled every time. And B, now we’ve got interested parties on the other side because we really do have business to offer them and it’s a win win and was able to actually make a marketplace a liquid before it truly was.

Bronson: Yeah, that’s that’s a great hack. Now, how do you guys decide what services you’ll offer? Is it they just come to you and their needs are unique and then you build out around that? Or do you guys have kind of a roadmap of we’d like to start offering this or that? How does that work for you guys?

Jaspar: Yeah, it’s it’s a little bit of both. It’s mostly like, you know, as we seen the inner workings of more companies, you’ve developed certain products, but usually, right, if someone comes to us and they’ve got an idea of something that’s really custom to their business and it’s operational and you can train someone to do it. We can help design a process in both a team around it, and we’ve started offering new services oftentimes by the requests of our clients. There’s been other instances in which we’ve built out services ourselves. So for example, photo retargeting is a service that we do for a lot of big e-commerce sites. And we saw that as we identified that and say, hey, you know, there’s a lot of people that are doing retouching in-house in their photo studios. It’s difficult to work with creative folks. It’s really expensive to do this. And it this is a constant need in the business. Let’s build out a process around it. So it’s come it’s come from those now.

Bronson: That’s awesome. Well, Jasper, this has been an incredible interview. I mean, it really has been there’s been so much in here that has personally inspired me. I got one last question for you. Is the question always in all the interviews with seen kind of take it in a direction you want, but what’s the best advice that you have for any startup that’s trying to grow?

Jaspar: I would say there’s two things. One is hustle, hustle, hustle. And two is if you do not ask, you will not receive.

Bronson: I like it.

Jaspar: So many people are afraid to ask for it. Got to ask where in the early days, because if you don’t, you’re not going to get anywhere. And usually the worst case scenario is that the answer is no. Then you’re in the same position that you were.

Bronson: Spoken by a true salesman. Jasper, thank you so much by coming on growth actor TV.

Jaspar: Bronson, thanks so much. This has been really fun.

Bronson: Absolutely.

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